What Do I Do With All The Extra Webbing

[Guest smartfazer]

Hi All,

 

I wonder if you can help.

 

I am currently starting to fit Gearbox(Type 9) to engine(Zetec Blacktop).

 

I mated them together expecting some differences but I was not expecting the engine/sump bottom mounting flange to hang down quite so much.

 

 

Can I or should I cut this off. The trouble is I will lose 2 mounting holes. This excess amount is on the same level as the sump.

 

I was expecting most of the mounting holes/bolts to line up. I can only line up 5 in all. 2 at the top, 2 on the upper nearside and 1 on the upper offside. Is this correct?

 

Will a new shortened sump(Burton, Raceline etc.) resolve this problem?

 

Also with the nearside engine mounting location in the block. Have people cut off the extra webbing bit flush with one of the mounting holes?

 

 

Any help advice appreciated.

 

Steve

[Guest doddy]

just cut the bt off i did and its fine if you get a new sump the you get that bit also so will sort it out

but you will only still be able to use 5 bolts only

[Longboarder]

I know that the raceline sump works a treat, is a nice bit of kit, is as short as you need go, is well baffled and allows you to bolt up those two bolt holes at the bottom of the bellhousing cos I have one fitted. It's also a silly price and probably overkill.

The pinto engine to type 9 only used the top four bolts at 9.00 11.00 1.00 3.00 and it worked fine and the engines seldom fell off the bellhousings! (OK there was a silly little strut down on the offside that looked as if it might do something but didn't do much.) So no you dont need those bottom two bolt holes to do anything and all will still be well. So you can cut off the excess sump ally level with the bellhousing if you wish.

Likewise the lump just below and behind the dipstick hole can be anglegrinded (angleground?) to the same level as the bolt hole behind it. It has a hole in it from below which will be part exposed. It doesn't enter the crankcase. The two bolt holes behind this lump (or ex lump if you've ground it off) stick out more than the two verticaly aligned holes just in front of the dipstick and will need a washer or two as spacers to take up this difference if you use all four bolt holes for the engine mount plate fixing (or three as one of the back ones is sometimes not threaded or not even there).

 

Nigel

[Guest smartfazer]

Thanks Guys,

 

Nigel,

 

With the raceline sump, does it replace both the ally and steel parts of the original or is it just the steel pressed pan it replaces? It's a lot of cash though!!!

 

I also need to get the flywheel off so I can sort the adapter(crud) plate. I'm having trouble "cracking" the 6 bolts though.

 

 

Steve

[Guest oddsocks]

Hi All,

 

I wonder if you can help.

 

I am currently starting to fit Gearbox(Type 9) to engine(Zetec Blacktop).

 

I mated them together expecting some differences but I was not expecting the engine/sump bottom mounting flange to hang down quite so much.

 

 

Can I or should I cut this off. The trouble is I will lose 2 mounting holes. This excess amount is on the same level as the sump.

 

I was expecting most of the mounting holes/bolts to line up. I can only line up 5 in all. 2 at the top, 2 on the upper nearside and 1 on the upper offside. Is this correct?

 

Will a new shortened sump(Burton, Raceline etc.) resolve this problem?

 

Also with the nearside engine mounting location in the block. Have people cut off the extra webbing bit flush with one of the mounting holes?

 

 

Any help advice appreciated.

 

Steve

 

 

Steve why make work for yourself-dont cut the lug off the engine block leave it on and just make some spacers-which you would need to do anyway. Putting an angle grinder to the engine didnt feel right!

 

HTH

 

Jamie

[Longboarder]

It replaces both the ally bit and the steel pan. It also replaces the oil pickup pipe as it has it's own system built in.

You loose the windage plate however and have to either adapt a silvertop plate with silvertop main bearing bolts and spacers or buy the windage plate kit or mount a silvertop windage plate in the sump or run without one (as I am at present but will fit a kit next time the engine is out.)

Another benefit is the engine stands on the sump on the garage floor without falling over.

 

Nigel

[Guest smartfazer]

I know what you mean about the flat bottom. I'm getting fed up of having the engine hanging on the hoist.

 

Please excuse my ignorance but what does a windage plate do? Is it just another name for a baffle plate? Does anyone have a photo?

 

Thanks

 

Steve

[Guest gixerboy600]

Do away with the sandwich plate, most modern cars do not use them anyway!! I have an MT75 mated to Zetec, as "Yanto" Jamie says space out the mounts over the engine block and DO NOT cut it off!!! Trim the bottom of the Bell housing to fit and I would definately fit the raceline as it is a custom replacement for O.E and will not allow any oil starvation which can occur with cheap cut and shut alternatives!!

 

I appreciate there is a cost to consider but rather £500 now than a new engine in 2000 miles??

 

Cheers

 

 

John

[Longboarder]

as "Yanto" Jamie says space out the mounts over the engine block and DO NOT cut it off!!!

I disagree. Whats with the capitals DO NOT and three exclamation marks. You make it sound like the engine will fall out of the car before you get a mile down the road.

 

I do not see what possible problem grinding this small cube of casting off the engine could cause. I accept you do not want to do it and that's fine. You are suggesting that three/four M10 bolts (from memory) with several washers or a spacer on each, standing the engine mount about 10mm off the face of the engine is a better engineering solution than ten seconds with the grinder and bolting up the plate flush with the side of the engine but with a single washer/spacer under the two front bolts. I think it would look crude, be mechanicaly weaker and less secure to long term vibration.

 

Nigel

[Guest gixerboy600]

I disagree. Whats with the capitals DO NOT and three exclamation marks. You make it sound like the engine will fall out of the car before you get a mile down the road.

 

I do not see what possible problem grinding this small cube of casting off the engine could cause. I accept you do not want to do it and that's fine. You are suggesting that three/four M10 bolts (from memory) with several washers or a spacer on each, standing the engine mount about 10mm off the face of the engine is a better engineering solution than ten seconds with the grinder and bolting up the plate flush with the side of the engine but with a single washer/spacer under the two front bolts. I think it would look crude, be mechanicaly weaker and less secure to long term vibration.

 

Nigel

 

As ever, on this ever welcoming club, a constructive reply to an honest response to a simple question posted by a fellow builder! Your opinion as mine is entirely valid, however I feel any further comment will as ever on here degrade into the usual!!!

 

I am quite happy with my build, if it falls short of your obvious grinding experience I apologise.

 

Enjoy

 

 

John

[Guest smartfazer]

Having just spent a couple of hours in the garage getting the sandwich plate ready for welding tomorrow I am happy to keep it. I don't like the idea of having the top quarter of the flywheel totally open to the elements. (See photo above. I will take photo's tomorrow of my fabricated sandwich plate).

 

With regard to the sump, I think I might go the raceline route, again I don't like the idea of grinding into a perfectly good casting, plus it will sort the clearance problem of the sump, as I would have to sort that as well anyway. £500 seems a lot now, but I'm sure it will be worth it. I'll just have to do a few hours overtime to pay for it

 

John as an official GBS sales rep, do GBS have these sumps for sale and at what price? I might give Richard a call anyway tomorrow.

 

Still in two minds about grinding off the stumpy bit for the engine mount. Spacers and 12.9 high tensile bolts should be ok methinks

 

Steve

[Guest gixerboy600]

Having just spent a couple of hours in the garage getting the sandwich plate ready for welding tomorrow I am happy to keep it. I don't like the idea of having the top quarter of the flywheel totally open to the elements. (See photo above. I will take photo's tomorrow of my fabricated sandwich plate).

 

With regard to the sump, I think I might go the raceline route, again I don't like the idea of grinding into a perfectly good casting, plus it will sort the clearance problem of the sump, as I would have to sort that as well anyway. £500 seems a lot now, but I'm sure it will be worth it. I'll just have to do a few hours overtime to pay for it

 

John as an official GBS sales rep, do GBS have these sumps for sale and at what price? I might give Richard a call anyway tomorrow.

 

Still in two minds about grinding off the stumpy bit for the engine mount. Spacers and 12.9 high tensile bolts should be ok methinks

 

Steve

 

Hi Steve,

 

 

I am not employed by GBS ( I support them, and as I am a sales rep, some have well you know!!) I have done what I have on the advice of GBS and if it works on factory cars well it should on mine!! With regards open gaps etc. I have a time served mechanic across numerous marques of 35 years assisting me with my build and I have been astounded at the number of top end cars who have similair "holes" available to the elements.

 

My point is, if it works and you are happy, great, if you see an idea and can see the benefit well give it a go!!

 

Good luck

 

John

 

P.S GBS do sell the Raceline sump (at virtually cost because of the price) have a look either on the Kit Spares site or give the guys a call!!

[Guest mower man]

Re question on windage plate ,it is basicly a baffle to stop the c/shaft webs frothing oil up at high rpm this can cause oil press/starvation probs under spirited driving sits [track days, racing etc]but less likley on the road unless oil levels are to high it can occur under heavy braking too HTH mower man

[Guest smartfazer]

Thanks MM,

 

I had a feeling that it was something to do with that.

 

So........If I purchase the Raceline sump, do I need to buy the "extras", which I think includes a windage plate, to fit to a blacktop if I am going to use it on the road?

 

Next problem is to see who can do me the best deal on 1 x Raceline sump (plus extras maybe), plus 1 x Raceline water rail. Somebody must be able to do me a discount on this lot!

 

Have you noticed how many 20% discount offers there are around lately? Probably none will apply to sumps or water rails!

 

Steve

[Guest smartfazer]

Here's my fabricated adapter plate:-

 

 

I know I got a bit excited with the angle grinder in places, but you won't be able to see it once fitted.

 

Covers up those gaps nicely

 

Steve