Pinto Turbo Oil Leak On Turbine Side

[dandanfireman]

Hi guys its been a while but i'm back on the Pinto Turbo problem solving again. Since installation of a T3 turbo on my EFi Pinto I have be plagued with oil leak problems from the turbine side of the turbo.

 

Just to give you all the info, the oil input has a restrictor on it, the outlet is pointing downward its entire length and the return line is returning above the oil level in the sump. The PCV is breathing into a standard Ford Motorparts item (not the small round one but the longer one a strange rectangular shape) that is then piped directly into a catch tank by 1/2 inch diameter pipe and then the tank is vented. The oil filler cap is a sierra item with is also vented, so breathing of extra blowby caused by the turbo should be accustomed for (let me know if anyone thinks i'm wrong here).

 

The end result right now is that the oil is actually blowing out of the rear of the turbine past the metal seal and causing oil to build up and drip around the bolts securing the oil housing into the turbine housing also you can see oil building up around the gasket between the turbine housing and the exhaust manifold (dark black oil).

 

I'm currently thinking its the wrong size restrictor fitted at the moment but anyone with experience of Turbos leaking on the hot side would be of great help.

 

Many thanks

 

Dan

[Guest 2b cruising]

Hi.

It looks to me as though your breathing system is fine and pleantyfull.

One common old time fault used to be the gauze in the crankcase breather did used to block up with baked oil.

It would be worthwhile looking at this and cleaning it out. Leaving it to soak in a degreasing fluid for a few days used to work, or steam pressure cleaning.

To me though, this doesn't seem like a breathing problem.

You say there is a restrict or on your inlet oil feed, that won't be a problem because that would mean less oil in the turbo, not more.

It would appear your turbo seals are worn.

As new cassettes are available I would recomend you fit one of these as opposed to attempting a self repair of bearings, shaft and seal.

Hope this helps and does not prove to expensive.

Regards Ken.

[dandanfireman]

Thanks for you reply Ken. The Seals themsleves seem to be fine as the rubber seals only exist on the cold side where the compressor housing is. The seal on the t3 at the turbine end (where my leak is) is a metal seal and hence the only thing that can cause this I would have thought is lack of oil return for some reason and excess pressure in the oil housing. I just can't for the life of me figure out what would cause that pressure unless my oil restrictor is still too large?? Anyone know what size restrictor a pinto should run on a t3? I believe mine is from a cosworth so I assume it would have the same size. Honestly i'm a bit baffled. Might have to have the turbo apart anyway to see for myself you may well be right and it could just be foobarred.

 

Thanks for your input Ken

[Guest 2b cruising]

if your turbo is not new, the seals are worn or the seats are marked.

Have you or the previous owner always allowed your turbo a cooling/winding down period before turning your engine off.

Have you or ---------"----------"----- always allowed time for the oil to fully circulate before revving your engine.

These are the two main reasons for premature turbo metal seals failure.

it might be worthwhile changing to a smaller ristricter first but I doubt it.

If the oil pump is of higher than standard pressure, this could be the cause of a ristricter problem.

if your car has a pressure gauge fitted, anything over 70 psi at around 1500 or above rpm when warm could be a likely cause of this problem.

I have changed literally hundreds of turbo's with metal seal failure on HGV's.

The new complete turbo kits have never had a new ristricter with them and I always used the original.

After renewing these turbo's I have never had a problem with a returning customer.

The only other reasons I have had to replace turbo's for have been oil pump failure, bearing failure, or the wrong viscosity oil has been used.

It might be worthwhile checking if your turbo require the same spec oil as the engine.

If the turbo has been renewed in the past, has it got a newer type of metal seals that are suited to synthetic types of oil which your engine is not suited too. Or more likely the other way around.

phospher bronz seals are one example of not being compatable with synthetic oil.

This was found out when hundreds of garages put synthetic oils in there bulk oil dispensers. Diff and gearbox problems became prevalent.

Hope this helps you. Ken.

Edited May 29, 2015 by 2b cruising

[Snapperpaul]

If you have a PCV valve fitted it needs inlet manifold vacuum to work or the pressure builds in the crankcase

Try bypassing the PCV and see if that cures the problem

As for turbo oil leak this is more likely bad seals

[Guest 2b cruising]

If you have a PCV valve fitted it needs inlet manifold vacuum to work or the pressure builds in the crankcase

Try bypassing the PCV and see if that cures the problem

As for turbo oil leak this is more likely bad seals

Would you get a vacuum in a turbo inlet manifold?

[dandanfireman]

Right then, thanks Ken. I get the feeling the turbo needs a full rebuild and coke clean.

The turbo and engine I have no idea on the age, condition is unknown, winding down and cooling unknown. I have never ran it cold and revved it and as its always had an oil leak issue but i thought that was either oil return issue or breather problems.

 

The breather is breathing through a standard pcv valve which has no vacuum aiding it (I have read about drilling out a hole in the standard round Ford Motorparts PCV valve to help breathing but since i have changed to a catch tank the oil leak around the turbo is much worse.

 

I have read on a T3 rebuild website that the T3 has a second small drain hole behind the journal bearing and that this can often get coked up but either way it all certainly seems to point to you being right Ken and that after all other things being ok it seems the turbo must be the weakest link.

 

Would drilling out a hole in the breather valve aid to breathing i wonder ?

[Guest 2b cruising]

If it is blocked, drill the muck out by hand with the same size drill as the normal hole.

I would still recomend a new cassett. Casing surfaces do get marked and it could still leak after a full rebuild.

I don't think a cassett would cost you much more than a full rebuild kit.

 

[Guest 2b cruising]

I have just remembered, BMW 3 series diesel engines must have there engine breather change when replacing the turbo. If this is not done it invalidates the warranty.

Don't forget to clean yours out so it as clean as a fireman boot on roll call. LoL

If your oil return rout is through the breather I would be tempted to take the ball out.

As long as your catch tank is higher than the breather, no damage should be caused.

If filler cap is a top end breather, give this a thorough clean out also.

If they start throwing oil out after cleaning them, the really bad new is your rings need replacing.

This won't have been caused by any of these actions you have taken. It's just that your breathers were blocked and your engine cannot breath except internally.

You should of course do all this before starting after you have repaired your turbo.

Regards. Ken.

[Peter Bell]

Hello Dan nice to hear from you again, if you still have the pcv between the seperator and the catch tank then it is wrong! either poke a screwdriver through the valve or just take it out and use a bit of hose straight into the seperator then to the catch tank, (I think a 1/2" hose just fits into the grommet on the seperator) As already said the seperator can get quite blocked up after 30+ years!

[Snapperpaul]

Would you get a vacuum in a turbo inlet manifold?

 

Indeed no but the PCV would still need to be removed for a catch tank system or the pressure has no where to go

[dandanfireman]

Thanks for the help guys i may have gotten confused between the separator and PCV valve, originally I had a small round Ford Motorparts item with a rubber grommet in the top which then has a smaller item that plugs into it that looks like a filter After realising this filter was just to sort out the crap so it isn't vacuum sucked into the plenum i realised I didn't need this on the turbo.

 

So in short what I have is the lower hole in the crankcase which has a standard ford item with the grommet in (does this make sense) that may be the separator? the pipe then goes from this to the catch tank above the hole in the block.

 

Is that right? That is what the system looks like as of now. The breathing is fine, no oil in catch tank, or from oil filler point. I will clean out both breather items and rebuild turbo me thinks. Let me know if i've missed anything thanks.

 

And Hi Peter been a while but i'm still about.......just

[Peter Bell]

Dan it sounds about right seems to point to failed seals on turbo

Has your Dad still got his car?

[dandanfireman]

Yes Peter the SS100 Replica is still around just work and other commitments have meant neither have been on the road for about 5 years. Anyone know a decent place to get dry t3 rebuild kits from ? as its proving difficult to find another dry t3. After reading up on the t3 i've found there is a second drain point from the rear of the journal bearing which can get blocked up and cause this same effect.

Also the oil thats leaking out is pitch black not sure if that makes a bit of difference?

[Guest 2b cruising]

Could be carbon smoke from exhaust side?

It you have an oblong shape separator, that originally had a sprung ball on it.

If it's that you are on about, take the ball out.