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Brakes For Zero


Guest filwaf

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Guest filwaf

Hi all, I have just this week placed the order for the basic chassis kit ( for ford 2L zetec ) and am now planning ancillery items such as brakes. Am I correct in assuming that a brake servo is not needed ? Also what are the merits / advantages of multi-pot callipers over single pot callipers or is it preferable to have say 4 pot callipers to help with stopping or will this just lock up the wheels with heavy breaking ?Regards Fil.

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You're right is saying that a servo is not required as you can still manage to lock the wheels without one even with discs all round.

 

Just press harder ... :)

 

You quickly get used to it and a servo means you are far more likely to lock the wheels than without.

 

I am still using the basic sierra callipers all round and they are sufficient - albeit heavy (in physical weight).

 

Simon.

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Guest Alan_builder

Hi Fil,

 

I feel bad, simple Simon is correct! By simple I mean he has kept his answer simple.

No talk of dual master cylinders,

Long pedal travel

Master and slave cylinder sizes.

Front to rear breaking ratio

Fixing of balance bar for IVA

 

Yes lots more questions to come from you I am sure.

Any way the more pots the more even the pressure on the back of the break pads especially when the pads are large (wear, not improved breaking friction)(overheating?) Often multi pots are double sided and not just single sided.

 

It all gets complicated very quickly. If you have money then multi pot calipers are great otherwise you car will stop fine with Sierra ones.

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Guest filwaf

Thanks for the advice guys. I know there is a long way to go but I am trying to get my head around where the next load of money needs to be spent and at the same time trying to route the brake pipes, fuel lines and wiring loom in my head. Perhaps I should factor in some money for a shrink to sort me out when I go "ga ga " Regds Fil.

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Guest filwaf

I will try to keep things as simple as possible, but I am thinking about getting involved in hill climbs, and don't know yet whgat influence this will have on equipment and general running gear. Regds Fil.

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My theory for what it's worth.... if there's a strong possibility you'll want to upgrade at a later date to willwoods or similar then why do it twice?

I.e... sorting donor brakes and the costs associated with that and then spending again further down the line.

They wont affect IVA unless you start going balance Bar and bias.

 

Just my thoughts...

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Guest mower man

Iran my car as origbuilt with donor front brakes and found them inconsistent even after repeated cleaning and servicing I replaced them with Hi-Spec 4 pot caliprs ,slightly larger discs [268mm IIRC ]and have had no probs with locking etc I run the orig servo etc ,they can be locked yes but that is controlled by the nut behind the steering wheel, the servo /non servo argument will prob rumble on for years and is usually governed by space limitations not alowing fitment I prefer servo others may not my ops only mower man :search: :clapping: :crazy:

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HI-SPEC can supply a complete kit...

http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/index.html

 

http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/index.php?cPath=1375_1376_1378

 

Rally Design are the major UK importers for Wilwood, but you need to spec your own set-up.

But they are generally cheaper.

I've used both at various times & they are both good....

Bob

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The basic sierra donor front discs and rear drums or discs have excellent stopping power and are reasonably well balanced and come with a good handbrake. Add mintex m1144 pads/shoes and you have more than enough stopping power, even for sprinting and trackdays. The only downside is unsprung weight (and lack of bling!).

Twin master cylinders and balance assembly, new discs and bling callipers and mintex pads from Hispec or Wilwood don't come cheap and cause significant set-up problems for IVA. Handbrake tends to be less effective also. They are lighter than the standard sierra stuff saving unsprung weight but it's hard to believe you will gain detectable better handling unless you are a fairly serious club racer with significant levels of skill.

It's a no brainer for me but I'm not you. I don't know your budget or experience. I do remember fitting my twin master cylinders, keeping the rest of the sierra brakes and what a pain it was setting it all up, getting the balance right and still not being happy till I added the mintex pads.

 

Nigel

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Guest Lowlife

I have the standard master cylinder with three outlets, two go the fron and one to rears via T connector brake light switch. I have the standard rear vented discs and calipers (XR4X4 I think) and the fronts are the 260mm Diameter vented discs and calipers, standard pads all round. Loads of stopping power, no IVA problems, no balance bar, simples!! The car has now done 14 trackdays and 10500 miles in under two years and I have never had cause to worry about braking performance.

 

John

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Guest filwaf

Hi Guys, These are all great comments and a whole lot of fab advice. I didn't realise how much was involved, but at this early stage and as I will only be a novice if I take to the hill climb scene, I will try to be keeping it simple and not get too expensive. Still not made my mind up yet, but these answers have given me a load of food for thought. Regards Fil. :good:

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Having posted links to Rally Design & Hi Spec, I should say that I have standard vented disks & calipers, & rear drums.

For space reasons, I have fitted a Rally design twin (tandem) M/C with no servo.

Like Nigel I use Mintex 1144 pads...to be honest I didnt notice any difference in feel,

but they have never faded on me, unlike the standard ones.

The feel without a servo is very different to modern cars, but I have got used to it & it suits me very well.

The limiting factor on any braking system is contact with the road, ie the tyres.

I run Toyo 888s on track days, & I can still lock up all 4 wheels if I get carried away.

How much "better" do you need?

& the added bonus if you have a Sierra donor, is you already have the braking system for free....

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Guest filwaf

Hi Bob, Thanks for the steer ( if you pardon the pun ), but one of my concerns with single pot calipers is the need for the caliper body to move freely on the rails. It has been known for this action to seize up and then when brakes are applied it starts to flex the carrier as the pads wear. I don't know if I am justified in this but as an engineer, these are the kinds of concerns that go through my mind and I would not wish to make too many compromises when it comes to something as safety critical as brakes. Regards Fil.

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