Calling Super Spec Owners, Coolant Pipework!

[geordie40]

Im after some advice regarding the pipework on my super spec, after reading many posts I am somewhat confused (doesn't take much!!).

 

Its the first dry day I've had a chance to look over the car properly and I had asked the previous owner if the coolant had been changed to which he replied with yes, what he didn't say was it has been changed to nothing but WATER!! which got me checking the pipework to see how it ran.

 

After looking at posts from Alan and Andy (my go to guru's) Im a bit stumped as mine sounds to be set up differently.

 

I have attached a crude drawing and a couple of engine bay shots

 

My header tank has 3 small bore pipes leading from it, 1 from the bottom which goes across top of engine to a pipe on top centre of rad, 1 to my overflow tank and 1 to the thermostat housing.

 

The thermostat housing has the 1 from header, the main large pipe to top of rad and there is a smaller pipe that may be from thermostat housing or into the block just below it and goes to a "T" piece in the bottom rad pipe that comes from the pump.

 

Hope this makes sense.

 

Does it look right, if so then I can make it a bit tidier in the engine bay

 

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by geordie40

[geordie40]

Also while Im asking questions, my header tank has what looks like a level detection or some kind of float mechanism but the connection only goes to ground!! if you look in previous post at last picture you can see the pressure valve and next to it with the black disc around is this float thingy

 

Any ideas?

 

And what is the capacity of the fuel tank?

[alanrichey]

The system looks identical to mine. I am just preparing a briefing sheet on improving the cooling system, so I suggest you wait till I send you that before you make any changes.

 

The level detector is not used, although I guess you could wire it up to a warning light on the dash if you felt the need.

 

If you still have the original Fiesta tank then it is 40 litres.

Edited May 2, 2018 by alanrichey

[geordie40]

Thanks Al, Im going to drain it and put some "proper" coolant in not water like the previous owner

 

And how far do I fill the header tank, I cant see any marks on it but it was filled right to the brim before, and when refilling do I loosen that little bolt on the metal pipe going across engine to let air out as I fill

 

About the fuel tank, I received an email from previous owner mentioning a breather pipe in the boot and to remove a "bung" when filling up, does this ring true , Ive yet to fill it as it came with a full tank

 

Soooo many questions

Edited May 2, 2018 by geordie40

[AndyW]

In mine and Al's cars, the cooling system was originally set up by RHE as follows:
- large top hose and alloy pipes from thermostat to top right of radiator
- large bottom hose and alloy pipes from bottom left radiator back into waterpump
- medium hose from closed side of thermostat to the metal water rail above exhaust headers and into a tee piece. On the Rover originally this would have gone to the heater.
- hose and metal pipe from the tee piece back across top of engine into top centre of radiator. This would be the 'heater' return.
- medium hose out of underneath coolant bottle also joining to tee piece
- small bleed hose and pipe from front of thermostat along side of engine, round back of coolant bottle and into top side entry
- small bleed hose from top left side of radiator along chassis and into coolant bottle bottom side entry
- small hose from coolant bottle cap overflow (mine drops to the road; yours goes to a secondary overflow bottle)

So we actually have 4 hoses connected to the coolant bottle. You shouldn't really need the extra overflow bottle as the pressure cap should only release if the engine gets very hot, and over 15-20psi.

See my attached diagram.

As Al says, we've decided that the design of this is all wrong, in that it feeds the water from the thermostat during warmup via the non-existant heater, back into the top of the radiator. This leads to very long warm up times. I've just redesigned my system as a test.

We don't know what car the expansion bottle is from, and I don't think anyone has the float level sensor wired up to anything. There are moulded plastic level markers inside the bottle (you can see when it is empty), but I generally 3/4 fill the bottle and leave a couple of inches air gap at the top to allow for expansion.

Your diagram doesn't quite seem to match the setup of our Superspec cooling systems. You seem to have a T piece in the bottom hose from radiator to the water pump, where the medium hose from the thermostat feeds in. This is actually very similar to how I've replumbed mine, effectively taking the 'heater' return water and putting it back into the engine instead of the radiator.

So yes, your system looks along the right lines. How quickly does it warm up? And yes you can undo that little bolt on the metal pipe going across engine to let air out when you fill it. I don't have one so always had undo the top hose to fill the system.

 

Andy

[geordie40]

Hi Andy

I only have 3 pipes from header tank, 1 of which is just to over flow. The "t" piece from bottom hose runs back along chassis and along engine block (very small bore metal pipe atatched to side of block) and back into block just below thermostat housing.

The metal pipe across top of block connects small pipe in middle of rad with bottom of my header tank.

 

I think car takes about 10 mins or So to warm up. My brand new insignia take about 15 mins!!

 

How far can I fill header tank when refilling as I can't see any max/min marks

[geordie40]

Just seen the bit about filling up!!

Still not awake

[alanrichey]

Yes, your system is like every other Superspec. There is very little logic to it. Basically when RHE decided to use a Rover SD1 radiator they had to something with the various extra outlets on the radiator

 

As for your fuel tank question, the Fiesta tank has 2 breather pipes. A narrow one (3-4mm) in the centre of the tank and a larger one (10-12mm) off to one side. The small one is for day-to-day use so air can get in as petrol is gradually used. The larger one is to allow air to escape when you are filling the car up. On my car I have a hose from the large breather to the filler neck about 2" inside the car. As a result I find I can fill the tank at full power on the pump handle. It sounds like your builder hasn't done that, but simply put a bung in there. So I guess you would still be able to fill the tank but it would have to be done very slowly to allow the air to escape up the filler tube. Removing the bung would allow for faster filling like mine.

Edited May 3, 2018 by alanrichey

[AndyW]

I only have 3 pipes from header tank, 1 of which is just to over flow.

 

That's interesting. We definitely have 4 connections on the expansion bottle, as marked in this photo.

[geordie40]

Will check mine Andy but fairly sure its only 3 hoses.

 

Trying to get new header tank preasure cap is a pain, all motor factors are asking what the tank is from. Do you have a link to one I can get or part number

 

Wanderer I have been relying on guage it was full when I picked it up and now its down to half. Having said that I assumed it was full coz I couldn't get more than £12 in it But this was before I knew about the breather pipe!!

[AndyW]

how do you know you had a full tank when you got the car, hope your not relying on gauge, i thinks Als runs back to front, i always carry carry fuel can with me as sick of running out ive changed my gauges to etb ones which i still cant get a reading even with a gauge wizard fitted a job for me is to take the escort tank out and drill a hole for the etb sender to fit as i know this works out of the tank

[AndyW]

I must be lucky in that the previous owner got the Escort gauge and Fiesta tank sender wired up correctly on my Superspec. It shows full when the tank is full (after 1 click of the pump nozzle), stays showing full for about 100 miles then linearly drops towards empty. If I fill it when on the 1/4 I get about 32 litres in. Spot on!

[alanrichey]

Trying to get new header tank pressure cap is a pain, all motor factors are asking what the tank is from. Do you have a link to one I can get or part number

 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00GSQY9TS/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Works for me

[geordie40]

Thanks Al.

 

As far as draining system do I just remove bottom hose from rad, if so how does engine block drain? Or can I take hose off pump as that is lower than rad and will that allow engine to drain?

 

I'm fairly sure my gauge works ok as well Andy, it certainly was going down on drive home after picking it up

Edited May 3, 2018 by geordie40

[alanrichey]

No idea. I remove the bottom hose but I agree that probably doesn't drain the block completely. I just refilled it with a 60/40 antifreeze/water mix to take account of the residual water in the block.