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Super Spec Suspension


Guest jelleyhead

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Guest jelleyhead

Hi all I haven't been on here for some time due to work and family so apologies for that.

Due to this I haven't had time to get the car sorted till now.

I have put new Gaz shocks on the front as I have never done this before am not sure if it's right so am hoping that you guys can help. I was trying to set them the same as the old ones I had taken off.

I still have half a inc

 

Sorry I posted and had not finished.

Anyway as I was saying I have set them the same as old ones I still have half a inch to get to the correct ride height. When looking at the shock there is not much room on the shock left if I keep winding them up it will be at the top. Have a look at pictures please any advice will be appreciated post-13207-0-54571900-1491075562_thumb.jpgpost-13207-0-34589200-1491075573_thumb.jpgpost-13207-0-28884100-1491075689_thumb.jpgpost-13207-0-94416900-1491075707_thumb.jpg

Edited by theduck
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Hi Darren......DONT PANIC

thats fine.

The threaded part of the shock only adjusts the ride height.

It doesnt have any affect on spring rates......whatever some club experts claim.

(Not our club experts, some other club's experts!)

I cant make out pics 1 & 2, but 3 & 4 both show plenty of thread left.

Wind away!

 

Just one last thought....you must have enough extension left on the

shocker to allow the wheel to drop when you jack up the car.

Your pics dont show how extended the shocker is.

Edited by Bob Tucker
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Guest jelleyhead

Hi thanks for info.

I was trying to show the space left between the shock and the bump stop.

Have look at the picture I have put some arrows on it to help explain.

 

Red is bump stop

Blue is top of shock

Green is space left

 

I have also taken a picture of the old ones I have taken off. Will it make much difference that the old springs are bigger than the new onespost-13207-0-46257200-1491126198_thumb.pngpost-13207-0-65166500-1491126436_thumb.jpg Thanks again.

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You should set the damper up for sag and droop not ride height. Ride height change is simply a result of correct suspension set up. To set ride height with disregard to droop and sag will result in very questionable handling. It can also put stress on the steering joints because the angle of the track rods changed in relation to the uprights as you alter ride height. Not to mention the geometry issues as you put the wishbones into a different part of their arc.

 

Will you notice the difference if you use it to go to the pub on a sunny day? Unlikely. Does it matter on track or for a serious road driver? Unquestionably yes.

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Guest jelleyhead

Ok. Um what is sag and droop?

What am I best to do take it apart and start again if so how should I go about doing what you have mentioned.

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It's not a job for DIY to set up. There are always compromises because you have to corner weight with ballast in the drivers seat, and set up droop and sag, bound, rebound, tow, camber, caster, pre load.... each effects the next. And ride height is what it is once they are all set. If the dampers are the correct length for the car they should sit with the droop etc perfect with the wishbones in their best position. If they are too long you can only sort that out by altering the fixing positions for the dampers on the chassis. It's sure easier than raising turrets on a standard car body tho.

 

If you have no stroke left on the dampers you will end up either bottoming them and bump steering all over the road, or you will have insufficient ellevation and lift a wheel on the slightest of corners or cambers. I started to study suspension a few years ago and quit as a bad job in the end. It's a while science in its self.

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Like I say that's how it should be set up. However if you're happy with it as it is then save the cash. It's not going to fall off the road if you DIY it, it just wont be operating at its best.

There is SO much to suspension it's unreal, I know the basics but that's it. I do know getting it sweet isn't easy, but ruining a good set up is as simple as you like!

 

For example as the wheel moves up and down it moves in and out on an arc so effects track. If top and bottom wish bones are different lengths you get a change in camber at the same time, this can be desirable or not depending on aplication. and as you steer camber caster etc alter with tow. This is always desirable. It is effected with ride height. Tyre wear and grip depend on getting this right, as does feedback. This is 1% of what is going on there, it's not just a shock absorber and damper it's science.

 

Also, something that bugs me.

Spring = shock absorber

Damper = damper.

 

The damper does not absorb shock beyond stichen, the spring absorbs the shock from the undulations inflicted upon the suspension. The damper dampens the oscillations within the shock absorber to return it to a static state. Withbout the damper the car would be a jelly and the tyre would bounce in and off the road like mad.

To clarify, the damper is not a shocker as people always call it. It's a damper. Shocker = spring. Lol.

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Guest jelleyhead

Thanks for the information. I am not happy with the way it looks and I think it's better to be safe than sorry.

I know there is a company local to me they sort cars out for the speedway so I will give them a call. If not it will have to be Northampton motor sports thanks again

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Look at it this way every thing done to that car so far is a DIY job. Sure if you really aren't happy get someone to check it but there are some things that even they aren't going to be able to change.

 

Caster - this is fixed as you can't move the suspension arms. It is actually not enough on the 2b/superspec which is why it doesn't self centre but there isn't a lot you can do about it, unless you reweld the suspension joints (which is normally not an option). So don't worry about this bit.

 

Ride-height - you want about 6 inches from the ground to the side panel. The lower suspension arm will be about level/ pointing down a little.

 

Shocker setting - you prob have a 13 open 9 closed shock so you have ~4 inches of movement (less with bumpstops) so i'd have about 2.5 inches movement up from level (see ride height) and 1.5inches to allow it to drop.

 

Something you need to be aware of with the 2b suspension is that the balljoint of the top locks out at a certain angle. You want the shocker to engage the bumpstop before it locks out the balljoint or if your suspension drops suddenly it could break the balljoint, which won't be fun. This will be down to where you set the bottom mount. I'd take the spring off and move the arm up and down with the damper in place to get the lower mounting in the right place.

 

Camber - get a piece of wood that fits into the metal part of your wheel. Get another piece 90 degrees attached to it and glue a protractor to it. Run a plumbline from this and get it so you have about 1-1.5 degrees negative camber (ie the wheel tips in towards the car at the top). You won't be able to get it pin perfect as you can only screw out the top balljoint so you have to do 360 degree turns so just try and get them equal both sides. If you have the RH supplied dummy struts then they aren't long enough anyway and introduce positive camber as the suspension moves. But i had them for 4 years without crashing and burning so it isn't the end of the world. If you really want to improve it you would need to buy longer struts so the top suspension arm is past it's mid point at resting.

 

Toe-in - this is a bit more tricky without equipment but can be done. I made a perfect rectangle of wood around the car and measured in from the wood to the front and back of the metal parts of the wheel. If the numbers are the same front and back of the wheel then the wheel is parallel (ie neutral toe) if the front measurement is greater then you have negative toe (which is what you want). I can't do the maths right now but using those 2 numbers and the distance (ie a 15inch wheel) you can work out the angle using Pythagoras (don't worry there are loads of online calculators to do it for you). Or most garages will do tracking. Although i had mine done and i had to remove the wheel arches on the front and it didn't drive well. Much better when i did it myself.

 

 

 

Bumpsteer - There isn't a lot you can do about this at it is designed in. In theory the suspension arms and steering joint should all be on the same line if you draw a line between the top suspension mount and bottom suspension mount. Depending on the steering rack RH supplied you may have a good setup or a bad setup. You can potentially shim the rack a little but i wouldn't worry about it as until you drive it you won't know and even then it probably isn't that noticeable.

 

There are a lot of limitations on the 2b/superspec suspension setup so i wouldn't worry too much as you will never get it setup absolutely perfect, and neither will any garage as they will have the same limitations.

 

happy to elaborate further if necessary.

 

hth

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Forgot the super spec wasn't the same as a zero. There is less to adjust. You can still do a lot tho. DIY is an option as said, but DIY with no idea of what your adjustments do isn't ideal. Have a bit of s research online there's a wealth of info on there.

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