What Budget Kit Car?

[Guest Chris71]

First of all, hello to everyone, as I'm new on the site

 

I'm thinking about getting another kit car, but as a weekend toy on a very limited budget (about £3k) I've had a certain ammount of experience with Locosts in the past (Used to help out with my university's 750 motor club championship car) and I fancy something 7esque - ready built (2nd hand) this time.

 

Obviously the main reason I'm on here is to look into the Robin Hood, but I'd also be interested to hear about the alterantives in my budget (Sylva Leader, Dutton Phaeton, Vindicator Sprint etc) especially if you've had experience that enables you to compare them to the RH.

 

Back to the Robin Hood..... is £3k a realistic price for a half decent car? If so, what sort of spec would I expect for it?

 

I've heard some rather harsh comments about the older RH's and I don't quite understand why. As I understand it the early kits were very close to the Sierra mechanically and once put into a lighter, stiffer car I can't immagine this is such a bad starting point? (baring in mind the budget)

 

And beyond that, can anyone just tell me a bit more about them. In short - should I buy one?

[Guest peter2b2002]

go for a RH part built, plenty on the market, take someone who knows hoods with you to view

pete2b

[Guest Chris71]

Had thought of something like that, but sadly I only just have space for overnight storage, nowhere I could really work on a part built car or one requiring any restoration.

[Guest timswait]

3K is not entirely unrealsitic, but definitely on the low side for a fully built car. They do come up at that price, but you will need to put some hours in to bring it up to standard. The others you mention will probably be quite easy to find that cheap or cheaper. I haven't any personal experience of them, they seem mechanically pretty similar to a Robin Hood, but they are pig ugly!

[Guest Chris71]

True.

 

I'm not sure what's worse (lookswise) the Leader or the Phaeton.

 

Mechanically they're quite different - the Leader is fairly typical 7esq spaceframe I think and a 5 link at the back and usually a dainty Fiat twincame up front, they are said to be one of the best handling roadsters out there. The Duttons are made of bridge girders and have cart springs (worryingly I'm not even joking on that point!) and seem to be far more agricultural in every way. That said, they're very simple so if something breaks you hit it with a hammer until it starts to work again or weld a new bit on and they are very cheap, even when fitted with V8s or 2.0 litre zetecs, so they do still represent quite a lot of bang for the buck.

 

No getting round the fact they're ugly, but if something brings a V8 or (in the Sylva's case) Striker handling within my budget I think I could get over that.

 

This is assuming I get something relatively quickly. I might of course hang on for a bit, then come back in the Spring with a £6k budget. Then things like Fisher Furys and well specced Strikers would come into the equation.

[Guest elwe]

At the first show I went to I made the mistake of walking slowly passed the Vidicator stand and the boss of Vindicator Cars started talking to me. He just wouldn't stop talking and it wasn't even interesting. At other shows I have seen him doing the same to others. I now make sure I hurry past his stand as quickly as possible while looking the other way. I wouldn't want a Vindicator, just because of him.

[Guest graham.g]

True.

 

. The Duttons are made of bridge girders and have cart springs (worryingly I'm not even joking on that point!) and seem to be far more agricultural in every way. That said, they're very simple so if something breaks you hit it with a hammer until it starts to work again or weld a new bit on and they are very cheap, even when fitted with V8s or 2.0 litre zetecs,

 

I would be surprised if my dutton phaeton was heavier than a robin hood 2b or superspec, the chassis can be made to handle good,mine has a 5 link rear ,and double wishbone front with coilovers all round,with a 2litre pinto .Nothing agricultural and certainly not bridge girders for a chassis.At Newark there were a few nice duttons and value for money you cant beat them,Good fun and under-estimated.

Edited July 10, 2007 by white 007

[Guest Chris71]

At the first show I went to I made the mistake of walking slowly passed the Vidicator stand and the boss of Vindicator Cars started talking to me. He just wouldn't stop talking and it wasn't even interesting. At other shows I have seen him doing the same to others. I now make sure I hurry past his stand as quickly as possible while looking the other way. I wouldn't want a Vindicator, just because of him.

 

Oh, I've had far worse than that. Last year I very nearly bought a GTM. At the time I was 'only' 23, but I have quite a well paid job for major car manufacturer. I went over to the GTM stand with my cheque book in my pocket and started talking to the bloke who runs it. Every question I asked, he answered to my father who also happened to be there. Not only was it incredibly patronising to me, it was also quite embarassing for my dad. I was very serious about finding more out about the car, but his responses completely repelled me. I guess his usual customers are middle aged blokes who've just come into a bit of money through early retirment and fancy treating themselves to something. As a result it was like I wasn't there - almost comical, despite the fact out of the three of us who'd gone up to him I was the only one with the inclination or the disposable income to leave him with a deposit.

 

Anyway rant over

 

Vindicator wise, I must admit I wasn't especially impressed with the distinctly un-technical technical overview on their website, but the body and chasis look reasonably well finished and I get the impression they'd be a step up compared to a Phaeton for the same price.

 

edit: I hasten to add, I'm only going on what I've been told about the Phaeton, so I'm pleased to read above I might have been mislead. Would like to hear more about them.

Edited July 10, 2007 by Chris71

[Guest graham.g]

all phaetons and melos models have live rear axle and leaf spring arrangement,Some owners have modified them to 5 link and coilovers.But running on leafs they can still handle well if set up properly. good second hand duttons go for £1500 or less making them good value for money and fun to drive

[Richard Grove]

We have just finished buiding a Funbuggy Freestyle. Total cost so far £3075. Add SVA, insurance etc and it should be on the road for less than £3500

 

http://www.richfreestyle.blogspot.com/

 

 

Richard

[Guest Chris71]

Are those one of the metro based off roaders? My father was pondering one of those on account of having a dead metro in the garage and plenty of fields to play with. Doesn't make quite so much sense for me, I live in deepest suburbia

 

Part of the appeal of the Phaeton is the bang per buck. The 750MC championship winning V8 was on sale for something like £3500 a few months back. A lesser Rover V8 or Zetec powered car isn't much more than £2000 and should be about the fastest thing (in a straightline atleast) you can get for the money. I suspect the age and fairly basic original spec of the Phaeton mean many have been modified (some for better, some for worse!) and I've heard conflicting reports on the handling. Most say they're good fun, but some say they're rather unpredictable and the rear end can let go without much warning?

 

I'm sure there is a lot of unwaranted prejudice against the Dutton simply on the grounds of their looks and their low prices, so I'm taking a lot of the detractors comments with a pinch of salt! I'd say it's probably still my second favourite option behind the Leader, simply because I've heard nothing but universal praise for the Sylva's handling and I'm a fan of the brand.

[Swan Jnr]

i think the complaints about kit car makers at shows are very interesting.

 

whats important to consider is that these are people who run a small engineering business.

If you start a business working in general fabrications there probably arent many occasions when you have to man a show stand, smile at people and win them over. you can probably spend all you career in the factory overseeing work and running the business.

In the kit car world the same types of people have to do a lot more.

 

the big firms are pretty good at it, as you would expect but theres a lot of variation with the smaller players. robin hood were the most successful kit car makers of the time, but few can have bought the kit because they were won over by the genial richard, slumped in the deck chair in his safari suit.

dont get me wrong he is a nice guy, we had an interesting chat with him when he had his cobra to show off, but he;s clearly not the guy you'd pick to front what is a hugely expensive show stand and as such a major investment for a business.

 

lots of companies dont market themselves at all well; and again similar sized business in different sectors probably dont have to. the tricky bit for kit cars is that its a very competitive market these days, theyre probably working all the hours god sends just to stand still and thinking about changing the way they kmarket themselves is a long way down the list; it shouldnt be, it should inform everything the busienss does.

[Guest Chris71]

Nah, the GTM bloke was just plain rude

[Swan Jnr]

Nah, the GTM bloke was just plain rude

[Guest elwe]

Nah, the GTM bloke was just plain rude

 

Actually I had exactly the same experience as you with GTM, they answered every question to my Dad. OK, I wasn't going to place a deposit then and there but I am on the lookout for the right part build Libra to replace my boring diesel tin top now that I have stopped the 112 mile daily commute I used to do.