Cooling System

[nelmo]

I have a 'new' Zetec engine delivered from GBS and I think that, apart from the relevant pipes, rad, header tank, I don't need anything else on the engine itself to complete the cooling system - is that right?

 

I'm trying to avoid paying the £220 for the GBS water rail. Does anyone know if that system is worth the extra cost over a standard system?

 

I'm assuming that the cost of the pipes will be substantially less than the water rail?

[Guest mcramsay]

The water rail allows you to sit the engine further back in the chassis and makes piping easier, and gives you points for temp sensors and fan switches, but it does get a bit of bad press ( well the race line one does) there are many pros and cons, and many discussions on the forum if you search for water rail. Personally I liked the raceline set up and never had any issues

[Guest 2b cruising]

"Worth fitting a rail of some sort.

Shop around first especially in locust and retro Ford forums.

[knights_templar]

The water rail allows you to sit the engine further back in the chassis

Isn't engine position set by gearbox mount?

[knights_templar]

You need a stat, the plastic ford housing is known to crack and hangs over the battery panel, it has a number of outlets that have to be blocked and bypassed.

 

Ford temp sensor can not be used, nor can its mount take a standard gauge temp sensor, so you need a mount for the transmitter as well as another for the ECU temp sensor.

 

You need some way of filling the system idealy at the highest point of the cooling system.

 

And of course, if you remove the ford unit, a stat.

 

Add that all up, and add in the problems for flow, air locking etc, you may not be gaining much.

 

BUT it is worth looking into, no point in waisting money needlessly.

[fry61]

No room on Florin so made one from 28mm copper tube & fittings -- all silver soldered together -- so far so good.

[nelmo]

Ford temp sensor can not be used, nor can its mount take a standard gauge temp sensor, so you need a mount for the transmitter as well as another for the ECU temp sensor.

 

Do you mean it can't be used with the GBS loom or the ECU? Any idea why not?

 

Transmitter? What's that?

[Guest alfaGTA]

Here is some costing research material......

 

End caps to block the heater outlets on the standard ford thermostat housing (think its 22mm)

http://www.autosiliconehoses.com/silicone-hose-end-caps-2-pack-blanking-plug-bung-4mm-to-32mm.html

 

One 90 degree angle to aim the water from thermostat to the front of the car (think its 35mm to 32mm)

http://www.autosiliconehoses.com/silicone-polyester-reinforced-hose-90-degree-elbow-reducer-35mm-to-32mm-15-colours.html

 

One TV aerial mast from B&Q (32mm outer diameter and aluminium) to carry the water from the 90 bend to the radiator

http://www.diy.com/departments/tristar-silver-outdoor-aerial-mast/571738_BQ.prd

 

One top hose thermostat kit to switch on and off your radiator fan (first one I found on ebay)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/35mm-RADIATOR-TOP-HOSE-THERMOSTAT-KIT-FOR-ELECTRIC-FANS-/141736372405

 

One water temperature sender to feed info to your dash and ECU (if you are lucky it will screw into your ford thermostat housing though you may need to source one of those, it will also need earthed to the block or head)

http://www.burtonpower.com/temperature-sender-early-sohc-ford-pinto-x-flow-essex-xtt14.html

 

Probably want 2m of silicone pipe to be safe

http://www.autosiliconehoses.com/silicone-polyester-reinforced-hose-32mm-choose-from-15-colours.html

 

You will need a 90 or 120 or 135 degree bend for the water pump too (think its 44mm on the water pump reducing to 32mm)

http://www.autosiliconehoses.com/silicone-polyester-reinforced-hose-90-degree-elbow-reducer-42mm-to-32mm-3-colours.html

 

Jubilee clips to join it all together (i prefer Mikalor brand but screwfix are ok)

http://www.screwfix.com/p/stainless-steel-worm-drive-hose-clips-20-50mm-pack-of-10/69166

 

You will also need an expansion tank and some 8-10mm silicone pipe work to plumb it in.

 

 

As per Rob (CMA) above mine was a home brew affair, my only weakness was a poorly sealing expansion bottle!

[Guest mcramsay]

Apologies I forgot the zero has a fixed gearbox mount on the chassis, so as Knights said the engine position is fixed. Becareful with ecu and water temp senders, they are matched to the temp gauge and ecu. Normally you have one for each. Mismatch between senders and gauges can give weird temp readings, also as the thermostat housing you will have to supply the senders with an earth

[nelmo]

Here is some costing research material......

 

End caps to block the heater outlets on the standard ford thermostat housing (think its 22mm)

http://www.autosiliconehoses.com/silicone-hose-end-caps-2-pack-blanking-plug-bung-4mm-to-32mm.html

 

One 90 degree angle to aim the water from thermostat to the front of the car (think its 35mm to 32mm)

http://www.autosiliconehoses.com/silicone-polyester-reinforced-hose-90-degree-elbow-reducer-35mm-to-32mm-15-colours.html

 

One TV aerial mast from B&Q (32mm outer diameter and aluminium) to carry the water from the 90 bend to the radiator

http://www.diy.com/departments/tristar-silver-outdoor-aerial-mast/571738_BQ.prd

 

One top hose thermostat kit to switch on and off your radiator fan (first one I found on ebay)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/35mm-RADIATOR-TOP-HOSE-THERMOSTAT-KIT-FOR-ELECTRIC-FANS-/141736372405

 

One water temperature sender to feed info to your dash and ECU (if you are lucky it will screw into your ford thermostat housing though you may need to source one of those, it will also need earthed to the block or head)

http://www.burtonpower.com/temperature-sender-early-sohc-ford-pinto-x-flow-essex-xtt14.html

 

Probably want 2m of silicone pipe to be safe

http://www.autosiliconehoses.com/silicone-polyester-reinforced-hose-32mm-choose-from-15-colours.html

 

You will need a 90 or 120 or 135 degree bend for the water pump too (think its 44mm on the water pump reducing to 32mm)

http://www.autosiliconehoses.com/silicone-polyester-reinforced-hose-90-degree-elbow-reducer-42mm-to-32mm-3-colours.html

 

Jubilee clips to join it all together (i prefer Mikalor brand but screwfix are ok)

http://www.screwfix.com/p/stainless-steel-worm-drive-hose-clips-20-50mm-pack-of-10/69166

 

You will also need an expansion tank and some 8-10mm silicone pipe work to plumb it in.

 

 

As per Rob (CMA) above mine was a home brew affair, my only weakness was a poorly sealing expansion bottle!

Man, that is brilliant - thanks! :-)

 

I wanted to ask if someone could give me a full list of what I'd need but thought that would be taking the p*ss!

[Guest alfaGTA]

The retroford item is £206 and only gets the water from the back of the engine to the front.... You still have to connect it to the radiator and from radiator to water pump.

 

AutoSiliconeHoses are perfectly up to the job.

 

IF you could find a person with a mandrel pipe bender you could create a very neat curve in the aluminium TV mast that would reduce the number of joins and reduce the potential for leaks.

[fry61]

Copper tube & fittings will get over all the problems of tight bends --- 28 mm bore is 50% larger CSA than the w/pump inlet so has given no problems on Florin.

[nelmo]

Hmm, as Knights said, by the time you've costed it up, it's not a huge amount off the cost of the GBS kit. I also want to fit a heater, so I'm going to need as much space as possible on the bulkhead.

[knights_templar]

Do you mean it can't be used with the GBS loom or the ECU? Any idea why not?

Transmitter? What's that?

The zetec transmittor/sensor, same thing different name, is fitted to the head on the front right, as you sit in the car, it is screwed into the head, has a short wire which ends in a grey plug.

 

I was told it does not use an understandable signal for the ECU, and as it is in a recess in the head, not into the water jacket, you can not fit a "Norma sensor" into its mount. So you need a new earthed mount for the ECU sensor as you will for the gauge.

 

There are mounts avalible that fit into the coolant pipes, however it is better that the ECU, not so much the gauge, is sensing water temp of the engine, before stat, rather than after stat, which stays cold until the stat opens.

[knights_templar]

Hmm, as Knights said, by the time you've costed it up, it's not a huge amount off the cost of the GBS kit. I also want to fit a heater, so I'm going to need as much space as possible on the bulkhead.

No provision in GBS kit, or raceline, no idea about retroford, for heater. Although they have been fitted with mods. There are electric options.