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Dummy Struts


johnhetherington

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Guest 2b cruising

Which ball joints, or do you mean the top and bottom wishbone A frames in there inner mounts.

Turning the eccentric mounted ball joint through a quarter turn from outer centre to its rearmost position should give an adjustment of the top ball joint by approx 1cm.

I am aware this will alter the camber negatively, but that has its own specific adjuster to correct this afterwards.

As I am trying to get Johns steering to at least attempt to self centre on Tuesday, can anyone be more specific on this adjustment.

I have looked at shimming the mounting brackets to move the bottom a frame forwards and the top a frame towards the rear to give a greater castor angle but there is no room for shims between the bushes and mount.

The maximum I would be able to change the castor angle using this method would be about 2mm and no more.

Without removing and remounting the mounting brackets this adjustment would be futile.

Any practical advice most welcome lads.

Edited by 2b cruising
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Guest chris brown

Dummy struts should never be turned to adjust the caster angle they should be fitted with the top of the taper close to the wheel, this allows the wishbone to travel over the full range without the joint exceeding it's designed travel. Caster angle should be adjusted by shimming the wishbones.

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Guest 2b cruising

Thanks Chris and Peter.

Looks more difficult now.

I think I will start from scratch for John with a full geometry check.

It's so bad you could put it on full lock and travel round in cycles all day.

As Johns son Garreth said "great for doe nuts"

Unfortunately no good for IVA.

My own car is in GBS as we speak, and I am thinking of getting the later Zero wishbones fitted as these are much better for castor and handling improvements.

Edited by 2b cruising
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Would this be the solution

 

http://www.kitspares.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=540

 

The rear arm of the wishbone appears not straight and would put the top ball joint further back.

I do recall chatting to a guy at Stoneleigh who said he had fitted these to correct lack of self centering.

Any ideas, thoughts, experience of this kit.

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Guest 2b cruising

I saw them fitted to a car while I was there a couple of weeks ago John.

I am thinking about fitting them to mine.

It would solve handling problems and bring your car up to date.

Before spending your money I would have a chat with Richard, Kieth or Wayne at GBS and have it confirmed this would work.

Not sure if on the same number as Kitspares but it is 01623 860990. After speaking with them they will put you through to Kit Spares stores.

I also want to disconnect your steering rack by the track rods to make sure it is not partially seized, and also to centre it first.

With both track rods being the same length, I cannot see the rack being fitted off centre, but I want to confirm this.

I also suspect your tracking to still be wrongly adjusted.

We will get there John.

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Hi Ken,

I reckon 2 long straight lengths of wood against both wheels &

projected forward will clearly show if there is toe in or out.

Then maybe use an experienced eye to decide how much is needed.

Sorry I cant make Tuesday, the Hood is fixed but I have a chiropractor appointment

I had forgotten (DOH!)

Best of luck with it.

Bob

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Guest 2b cruising

Hi Bob. Just back from Johns house.

Disconnected track rods, which were loose. One taper came out without a puller, the other very little effort to release. The also had soft washers under the nut, absolutely no need, especially with nylons.

The rack not fitted central but nothing can be done without major, major work.

Centralised steering wich was a long way out by about 3/4 of a turn.

Adjusted ball joint to same length and refitted.

Adjusted tow in to 1 mm tow in.

Inflated tyres to a massiv 40 psi to give it as much chance as possible as 205 tyres fitted.

Still no self centering.

Measured top and bottom swivel joints to find the top ball joints are nearer the fron of the car than the bottom ones by 10 mm.

Exactly the wrong way around. This would give a negative effect of the castor angle.

John ordering new top arms as we speak.

Going to fit when they get here, probably Thursday .

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Ken, as you probably know RWD cars run best with the front wheels parallel or with just a touch of toe in. This creates stability but causes slow steering response.

Have you tried giving the steering a big dose of toe out to see whether that will induce any sort of inclination for the car to self centre? I know it's not right but it will show if things can be made to work.

There are hundreds of 2Bs out there that have got reasonable to good self centring without having to resort to new wishbones, so you should be able to sort this out.

Don't you also need extended dummy struts if fitting wishbones with altered geometry?

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Hi Guys...

well done Ken, sounds like a busy day.

Just a daft thought.....are the top wishbones handed, ie a left and a right?

If they were fitted on the wrong sides, would that account for the cocked up caster?

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