Radio Reports

[Guest Ratcatcher3D]

Hi all

 

Iv just caught the back end of a news report on the radio about the goverment making us insure cars that are not already insured. Anyone know if this is true and will it effect my 2B thats not even been on the road yet, or as the DVLA think my Sierra thats been melted down in t tin cans already lol

 

Cheers

 

 

[Guest Angel Boy]

Hi all

 

Iv just caught the back end of a news report on the radio about the goverment making us insure cars that are not already insured. Anyone know if this is true and will it effect my 2B thats not even been on the road yet, or as the DVLA think my Sierra thats been melted down in t tin cans already lol

 

Cheers

 

As I understand it, unless your vehicle is on SORN you'll be fined if you do not have insurance valid for driving on the road.

 

Andy

[Guest The Modfather]

If your vehicle is SORN, then it will be off road (privately stored garage/garden) and therefore by law you do not need insurance as it is not on a public highway. Unless they pass this "new" law through house of lords, then what I state is gospel.

If it is SORN and left on the road (illegal by it's own definition -Statutory OFF ROAD Notification), then you have always needed insurance.

Why would it need insurance if it was on private land? If someone injures themselves on it then they will be trespassing. They would also need to change that law as well then!

[Guest Ratcatcher3D]

Cheers for that guys its just the goverment scamming for more money.

[Guest Angel Boy]

Here you go, I think is what is being talked about:

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Motorinsurance/DG_186696?pro=stayinsured

 

Andy

[Guest The Modfather]

Here you go, I think is what is being talked about:

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Motorinsurance/DG_186696?pro=stayinsured

 

Andy

 

That's nothing new, it's been the law for years. You must have insurance if your car is on the road. Only if it is sorn then no insurance needed, as its on private land, see earlier post. Government thinking that they are doing something new, me thinks?

[Longboarder]

Anyone know what happens in the case of an old pre-sorn project. I still have my GT6 which I will get round to restoring one day. Perfectly legally NOT SORN because it was off road long before SORN was introduced. Is the government capable of understanding there are many vehicle identities/piles of rust/projects which are not SORN currently and don't need to be. Legislation which affects other than it's target or intended purpose is bad legislation. (ie. councils spying on families to check if they are in school catchment areas using the prevention of terrorism act)

 

Nigel

[Snapperpaul]

Pre SORN is pre legislation so will only have to comply to the laws then, the worst that could happen is for DVLA to ask you to SORN it, your defence in law is that the car was taken off the road before the SORN regulations, as stated on the SORN application Form.

DVLA would have to retrospectually set the SORN law start point backwards, not likely to be agreed and very expensive to do.

The two major defences used before SORN was that the car was off road therefore did not require tax, still the case but you now need to declare it, or that it was not drivable, up on blocks no wheels but still on the highway, used to be the answer but that was eventually defeated, or by removing the wheels and another vital part such as the steering wheel or engine, is now not a car and not subject to tax, legislation brought in to plug these loopholes, say hello to SORN.

It's all about road tax revenue

Edited March 4, 2011 by Snapperpaul

[megadodo]

Once again government can't get it right! Do they really think that fining people for not insuring cars that are not used on the road will have ANY effect on those intent on driving without insurance. NO, its just job's for the boys, i.e. the law makers, those that uphold the law (sorry Daz, but I'm sure you have better things to do with your time than chase people who's cars are quite happily off the road but have no insurance) and those that make money from the law being broken, lawyers. The fine is so insignifcant its worth the risk for the people its aimed at anyway!

My Renault is off the road as its has an engine problem, it CAN'T be driven, when I fix it and try to sell it I will insure it but there is no point before. Yes Daz I could SORN it for a couple of months but then the government will have to pay me the tax back and them I'll have to buy tax again when I want to sell it where is the gain in that? What should be happening is that those the ACTUALLY do drive without insurance on the road are made to suffer big time. Big fines and cars removed and recycled and anyone who does it more than once goes to jail!

[Guest Noddy006]

Hi all

I bought and old Moss Roadster (Total strip project) last year that had been off the road for over 10 years and not sorn. Before I sent off forms for new ownership I spoke to Swansea and was told I do not need to SORN or insure as long as it is 'off road'. To go back to the original query, I can't see an unfinished car in the garden or garage should need insurance except for peace of mind. Cheers Ian

[Guest The Modfather]

They cannot fine anyone for having an un-insured vehicle on private land without passing the law through the House and Law Lords. This, as already stated, would cost lots of money to bring in, and in a big way would go against Human Rights, as it doesn't effect anyone else directly, i.e, does my car which is uninsured in my garage really affect you or others?

 

Private land is just that, private. What you do on it is solely down to you. In order for there to be a fine for no insurance then a law has to be passed.

 

Just as an example of private land offences and not to be read too deeply into please, I recently went to an out-laying farm at 0400 hrs one morning, as a farmer had rung police stating that he had 2 males at his farm gates shining a bright torch towards his farm house. He shouted at them to politely vacate the area, which they didn't, so he let off a cartridge from his shotgun, upwards into the air. Now, on private land he was entitled to crack one off, so to speak, however if he intended the "would be intruders" to fear the threat of being shot (they don't need to fear the threat themselves strangely???), he would have broken the law. We would however never really prove his intent in a court unless he stated that that was his intention, and he does have a right to defend his property as he is in the middle of nowhere, and assistance is 20+ mins away. My boss was rightly worried of another Mr Martin episode and so sent me out, yeah thanks boss! It therefore shows that there has to be a law to start with (Firearms Act) for him to be prosecuted for an offence on private land. Strangely enough the 2 men never called police stating that they were threatened!

 

All in all, I think it's just a PR exercise to try and show the law abiding people that the Government are looking at doing something for all the taxes we pay, against those that don't pay anything. I would be surprised if it comes to fruition. My breath is not being heldeth!!!!!

 

Daz

[megadodo]

If they can't fine you if the car is on private land unless they change the law what is the point of SORN then or am I missing something? Either the car is on the road in which case it needs, tax, mot & insurance or its on private land where it needs tax or sorn but no insurance or MOT. If this true what's all the fuss about or have the press overeacted (perish the thought)! Still confused!

[Guest The Modfather]

Exactly! As I stated several posts ago, this has been the law for years. SORN was brought in solely to clear the streets of un-taxed cars, and I suppose a more controlled way of dealing with uninsured motors left on the road, albeit a sly way of doing so, but clever. Having to constantly tax or SORN a previously or currently registered vehicle is sadly one we've taken up the Bournville Boulevard! But, unfortunately there are more people in the UK that do not have private land to park a vehicle on long term, hence the creation so as to either have tax always if you do not have land, or get it off the road and dispose/SORN it.

Every vehicle SORN'd needs to be off road, but does not require MOT or insurance. If not SORN'd then it needs tax, and in order to get tax you need insurance and MOT if applicable. Nothing has changed. Just a PR spin I think.

 

Think of all the track bikes and cars, off roaders etc, farm quads, kiddies pit bikes, race cars, in fact any mechanically propelled vehicle, they would never see a tarmac'd road but would need insurance if this is correct. It would never happen.

[Guest Captain Daz]

I think I'm slightly less cynical than most and just see it as mopping up the last of the unsinsured/untaxed scroungers.

 

My Dad was a Police Officer for 31 years and then worked as an inforcement officer (tax disc checker) after that. It happened so often that he would visit the house of an untaxed car only to find the car in the drive (obviously being used on a regular basis) and the owner 'out'. This person is untouchable unless caught on the road. Fairly improbable.

 

I see this law trying to stop this. If you own a car either tax it and use it legally or state that it is not used on public roads. Simple. Then if the untaxed lowlife are caught on the roads it tightens up the case against them.

 

As I see it Tax or SORN: no big deal.

 

IMHO of course!

[Guest Angel Boy]

I believe this change in the law allows is two fold:

• 
   
  
• It allows them to link up the road tax database to the insurance database to make an electronic comparison, between those who have valid insurance, but no tax etc inferring that you maybe driving the car without road tax.
  
• It clarifies the situation in the instance where you have valid insurance, but no road tax. You are now required to either SORN, get road tax or get a fine.
  

 

I agree it does feel a little like a money earner, but for those who have always operated under these assumptions anyway its just the same old.

 

Andy