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Stainless Robin


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#1 scoobydo71

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 09:33 PM

Hi all, I'm new to your world I guess?

 

Just bought a stainless tub Robin from ebay land. Maybe somebody knows a bit about it. The one in Beverley, East Riding?

Being ebay I just rocked up chucked it on the trailer and drove home.

 

Closer inspection shows it to be a bit of a shed. Has MOT but really shouldn't have, many small faults but the cracks in the welds are not new and are spreading. Oh dear!

 

Just a help call to anyone (in the Midlands preferably).

 

Would like to talk to someone who has a similar car and hopefully meet so that I can put a tape measure over it to give me some dimensions to work to.

 

One more on the road!!

 

Greg.Attached File  71.jpg   145.85KB   2 downloadsAttached File  7.jpg   106.48KB   0 downloads



#2 Andi

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 09:47 PM

Hi Greg,

Your in a great area for friendly folk who will more than likely pop round to have a look.

Welcome to the club

 

 

Andi


GBS ZERO

 

 

"Don`t try, and you`ll never fail"

Homer Simpson


#3 scoobydo71

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 10:27 PM

Cheers Andi,

 

I won't give up.

 

It's far worse than I thought it was but I  will get it fixed up

 

I'm hoping  to find info on chassis  dimensions (maybe?)



#4 cb750

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 10:44 PM

Hi Greg, I went through exactly what you are going to do! I live in Aldridge in the West Midlands and you are welcome to come over and measure and talk.

Rob

#5 brumster

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:20 AM

I'm only over Coleshill way too, so shout me if you need me. Don't have an applicable model to measure up, but plenty of others at the area meet will do ;)



#6 Steve49er

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 01:19 PM

Hi Greg, 

 

welcome to the Club so pleased you actually paid and joined, the world is now your Oyster in this Club with an absolutely wonderful array of knowledge and assistance when required. If there is a problem there will be someone in the Club who will be happy to assist. Congratulations  :yahoo:

Cheers 

 

Steve



#7 kevin the chicken

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 03:44 PM

Lots of people have had cracks in the stainless models but they can be repaired successfully. You just need to keep an eye on the problem areas, I haven't had to much trouble myself but others will tell you where to keep an eye out.

#8 scoobydo71

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 10:38 PM

Thanks guys,

Sorry if this is a long tale, but I'll try to do it only once!

It is in a state, but not insurmountable. I've got some box section stainless that I can make some gussets from that should fix cracks reoccurring.

I have access to a tig welder colleague by the way (but it's a little complicated, must teach myself, but not on this car!)

 

May have been built as a drift car? The diff feels welded (the seller assures me that it's a tight LSD). Rather than 3point turn it into my garage and put up with the rear wheel scrub and the front pushing on, I've taken to just flicking it round on the throttle. Much easier. Get my point?

Would like to have a car with which I can drive my girl to lunch in, plus trackdays (when I need to have a release from the modern can't pay attention to anyone else but themselves drivers out there! (Rant, Sorry!!)).

 

OK, you still with me?

The car:

SVA 2004, pre 1998 tub I guess (because it's a stainless non tubey)

2.1 race tune Pinto, type 9 box, LSD(to be confirmed). Inboard coilovers on the front, coilovers rear from the sierra damper mounts.

 

Issues - many: 

No wipers, no wash, no horn, etc. These easy, I can sort.

Things that I need help with are:

Nearside rear wheel rubbing on inner arch (rear suspension geometry check) 

Rear coilover angle mounts bent (rear suspension geometry check)

Steering rack arms wrong angle?

Rollcage mount really s**t (is this normal?)

Cracks to front frame welds and joint below battery tray (sound familiar?)

That should be enough for now.

 

Sounds like Rob might be my new best friend!?!. Wouldn't mind bringing my rear coilover mounts to compare with yours??

 

Thanks again for making me feel welcome guys, I'm a fairly handy mechey guy, just need a little guidance about Robins.

Cheers, Greg



#9 theduck

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:07 PM

Welcome Greg! The mids has an excellent group of members and a very well attended meet on the last Wednesday of each month.

#10 Big Jim

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:16 AM

Issues - many: 

No wipers, no wash, no horn, etc. These easy, I can sort. Horn & wipers are as you say easy to sort,  Wipers, go for an early mini system (need to slightly modify)

Things that I need help with are:

Nearside rear wheel rubbing on inner arch (rear suspension geometry check) Some did depending on offset of wheels, fit a spacer. (the rear sierra subframe is slightly off centre)

Rear coilover angle mounts bent (rear suspension geometry check)  The "turn over" of the chassis isn't strong enough here, design something to strengthen it up, (see photo)

Steering rack arms wrong angle?  Again, fairly common, if it's too low you could put packing pieces in.  (Note; quick rack internals from Rally Design (If they still have them) are brilliant providing it's the sierra rack.

Rollcage mount really s**t (is this normal?)  Along with strengthening for the coil overs, build in plating the outer side of the boot where the U bolts come through, (see photo) also I welded"bungs" into the open ends of the roll bar, these bungs had a 12mm threaded hole in the centre of them, then I drilled through the boot floor and finished off with large metal plates bolted up underneath the boot into them. I've also braced up the back mountings with a length of angle underneath the top lip of the boot.

Cracks to front frame welds and joint below battery tray (sound familiar?) This is common on the monocoque cars, all 4 vertical corners inside the engine bay, and where the front chassis member joins to the sides.

 

The car you have is a later model Mark 3 or Mark 3A monocoque..

Other issues that need to be checked........................................................

 

Check seat - floor mountings for floor strength.,

If it has tie bars (Much better than the standard anti-roll bar) check that where they're bolted to the car it's all been strengthened up.

Check fuel tank mountings, in time it will bend the bottom lip of the back panel if that's all that it's held by. 

I strengthened underneath the front of the chassis (the cross member that front shockers bolt to)  also strengthen up each side where the front shocks bolt to at the bottom.

See if there is a grease nipple in the top wishbones.

You need to somehow FIX the pivot bolt / stud so that it doesn't turn in the chassis, but the wishbone turns on that as it should. If it turns in the chassis, it will wear the chassis holes oval and big, cracks can sometimes be found around here as well,

Very important, check that the sump has been shortened. If it has, you'll find that the bottom of the sump will be level with the bottom of the bell hsg, If it's lower to any degree, it needs doing, (See my website for how to) (See photo of shortened sump)

 

There is plenty more that you can do to improve it, but long winded to write down, just keeps you with something to tinker with.

Attached Files


Edited by Big Jim, 14 November 2017 - 12:29 AM.

North West Owners Club Website at; http://nw.rhocar.org/

#11 cb750

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 08:28 AM

Greg, my car suffered with the same list of faults yours has including the rubbishy bit of bent angle to support the rear coilovers and the rollcage mount. It's probably better for you to come over and see what's been done and you can take photos if you want. I've pm'd you a phone number

Rob

#12 scoobydo71

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:10 PM

Cheers guys,

 

Big Jim.

Thanks for all the info. It's all pretty much where my head was at so it's good that someone else concurs.

The extra bits that you suggest are all good too. Mine looks fairly good really but I am aware that nothing has been strengthened and a lot looks a bit flimsy!

What are they like for torsional rigidity? I'm considering designing a box section semi-spaceframe for it but, of course, I really want to keep the weight down.

 

I'm lucky, I't came with an cast Ali 'big wing' sump on it, so I'm all good there.

Someone has spent good money on this car but not really got the idea of the engineering needed to make it all work properly!!

 

 

Rob.

Thanks for the offer, would love to visit and crawl over another one (and meet a similar Loon like myself, of course!). Mine's the only one I've seen for real so would be useful to compare and learn!

 

I have to return my father's trailer to his place in Staffordshire sometime soon so I could swing by Aldridge on the way. I'll give you a buzz when I know how I'm fixed and hopefully we can sort something to suit both of us.

 

Anyway, cheers again everyone.

You can probably tell that this is my first kit car so I'm likely to be a pesty question asker.

Built a few specials tho, Ford powered Chevettes, Range/Land Rover hybrid stuff. That sort of thing.

Oh, and I build Jag E types for a living nowadays. Just so you guys can get a picture of where I'm at.

 

Another longish one, sorry. I'll try to be more succinct in the future.

Greg



#13 Big Jim

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 03:06 PM

 

Big Jim.

Thanks for all the info. It's all pretty much where my head was at so it's good that someone else concurs.

The extra bits that you suggest are all good too. Mine looks fairly good really but I am aware that nothing has been strengthened and a lot looks a bit flimsy!

What are they like for torsional rigidity? I'm considering designing a box section semi-spaceframe for it but, of course, I really want to keep the weight down.

For normal use, providing you are aware of the weaker points that I've pointed out, and you get around to strengthening these up, there's no problem. They've had various engines fitted, mine has a VX redtop in at the moment (I've blown 2 pintos up, so decided to ditch the ships anchor) however, if you intend doing more than normal driving (with a bit of sideways roundabouts etc thrown in) then you might want to look to more strength all round, but then you're getting into 2B world, which is stronger but heavier.

All the weak area's can be strengthened by someone who is confident enough to do it, and has the resources. Basically, check every place on the monocoque tub, where part of the drive train / suspension is fitted to, and strengthen if you feel that it needs it.

 

Whilst I'n on, be aware that these cars are prone to overheating unless the radiator / fan / switch system is sorted out.   I have a 3 core ally rad fully cowled in, with a Kenlowe fan on an electrical temp sensor in the top hose, with a stat that opens at 82ºC, in normal driving the providing speed over 30mph, the air passing through the rad keeps it cool enough not to require the fan to come on. It also needs a header tank system that works.

If yours has the rad supplied with the kit, it will be the Ford single cored Cortina one, which is barely adequate even if the rad is cowled, and you're driving like miss Daisy.

 

 

Attached Files


North West Owners Club Website at; http://nw.rhocar.org/

#14 scoobydo71

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 08:45 PM

Good, we appear to be along the same lines, strengthen anything that frightens me!

 

I agree about the boat anchor too but, that's what I've got so I'll keep it for now. 

Like Red Tops, Good easy power and reliable, but last time I looked (maybe 15 years back) they were getting pricey.

I do have a spare 4.6 Rover V8 in the corner of the garage but that might be a bit much for a little stainless tub. Would be fun tho!!

 

Car wise, I've got what I've got so, for now, I'll have to work with it. Like I've said, I have a good Tig welder colleague at work and with a bit of careful gusseting I'm hoping to cure the stress cracking issues.

 

As for cooling, it does have a pretty old fashion rad on it (assumed cortina). Built in at a steep angle within the nose. One has to remove nose (4x zues fasteners) to remove rad cap? 

It has a decently positioned expansion tank (sierra I guess) tho, and yes, kenlowe fan with adjustable kenlowe thermostat with capillary fitted in top hose.

I've never driven it anger of course but, it runs up to temp in the garage ok and the fan cuts in and out quite happily with no histrionics. Fingers crossed eh?

 

My Missus read your profile by the way. She likes. Hope you are managing to grow old disgracefully. That's my plan too!!!

Greg



#15 IanS

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 11:38 PM

Robin Hood built a stainles tub with a 5.3 Jag V12 (with a bit of strengthening) so a Rover V8 is very doable.

Custom exhausts are needed.