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Clutch Operation


richyb66

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I've been having some problems getting the car into gear, it's a Pinto with a type 9 and I've used a 2WD Cosworth clutch cable. The clutch and release bearing are both pretty new. I've only had a couple of runs out since passing my IVA and it's always been a bit snatchy going into first and reverse. I had a 45mm Sierra quadrant on the clutch pedal and I packed it out with about 10mm of washers at the gearbox end and that was better but I was still struggling to get 1st sometimes.

 

Most of the adjustment in the quadrant is already taken up so thinking I needed more pull on the cable, I got a 55mm black Ford quadrant and put that on but it's still not right. The quadrant has a load of adjustment left on it when the cable is fitted, but no matter how I adjust it (take up some of the slack in the cable) it's still virtually impossible to get into gear when the engine is running. I even adjusted it up so much that when you press the pedal down to the floor, you can hear that it's obviously overloading the diaphragm in the clutch.

 

It's only difficult to get into gear with the engine running (which is generally when I need to select gears), with the engine stopped it goes into all gears with no problems so it's not like is the selector mechanism or the lever.

 

Not sure what to try next, with the 55mm quadrant I'd have thought I can get more than enough pull on the cable but disengaging the clutch doesn't make selecting gears any easier.

Edited by richyb66
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Guest Alan_builder

Hi Rich,

 

I guess the car is a 2B? That you fitted the pedal box and end wall to the foot well?

 

You say you can put your foot to the floor and hear the clutch diaphragm is overloaded. I would suggest the clutch is not disengaging , only partially so to speak. When you push down on the clutch the resistance should increase and fall back once the release fingers go over center and the plate frees. Chris Brown has a scheme where he puts a spacer on the outside of the biggest quadrant to get more travel.

 

Another option is the cable has been overheated by the exhaust and is now stiff. I am not sure if your clutch cable is the long one, if it is then there is sufficient length to go into the nose cone and back to aid getting distance between cable and exhaust..

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I had the same problems with 2b pinto and type9. i packed out the quadrant and disabled the ratchet on the quad from disengaging when the pedal returned to rest. this was the best result i could active with sierra pedals. the ultimate cure was fitting the zero pedal box never had an issue after that, the self adjuster on the sierra is cr#p

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Yes, it's a 2B with a Sierra pedal box. The pedal does go all the way to the floor and I did wonder if it had enough travel but with the 55mm quadrant, cable travel shouldn't be an issue even if the pedal movement is restricted. I can plate over the quadrant to get more movement and try that.

 

Cable is very long, goes well forward of the engine and nowhere near the exhaust.

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I extended the outer cable at the pedal box end by adding some steel tube about 25mm.

Still had some first gear engagement problems and this was the spigot hitting the back of the crank.

Spaced the bell housing with washers about 2 mm this cured it.

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Guest loopyonion

I had this issue on my s7 with sierra auto adjuster and stock pedal box.

 

The adjuster can't get enough tension on the cable, so as a cheat, I had an assistant push the clutch pedal, then I wedged something into the clutch fork arm. The pedal was released, and you heard the adjustment mech take up some slack. The pedal pressed again, and the item removed. We tested, and repeated once or twice. Don't go mad on it!! Couple of clicks max. Did the trick for a long while.

 

You could argue its stressing the ratchet and pawl, however.. Look up a manual clutch adjustment for the mk4 escort. It's s pedal with an hex adjuster, and a new quadrant. It removes the ratchet and pawl. From fords years ago it was less than 30 quid. And a bitch to fit on escorts and orions. Could be worth a look? I've done lots after fitting competion clutches to escort rs turbid back in the day.

 

Two possible solutions ;)

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Done all above; cresent fitted in quadrant,lenghtened outer of cable,fitted extra return spring to tension inner,the only thing that made a noticeable difference was increasing the throw of the pedal by moving the return stop so pedal is closer to seat at rest.

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Guest mower man

I had this issue on my s7 with sierra auto adjuster and stock pedal box.

 

The adjuster can't get enough tension on the cable, so as a cheat, I had an assistant push the clutch pedal, then I wedged something into the clutch fork arm. The pedal was released, and you heard the adjustment mech take up some slack. The pedal pressed again, and the item removed. We tested, and repeated once or twice. Don't go mad on it!! Couple of clicks max. Did the trick for a long while.

 

You could argue its stressing the ratchet and pawl, however.. Look up a manual clutch adjustment for the mk4 escort. It's s pedal with an hex adjuster, and a new quadrant. It removes the ratchet and pawl. From fords years ago it was less than 30 quid. And a bitch to fit on escorts and orions. Could be worth a look? I've done lots after fitting competion clutches to escort rs turbid back in the day.

 

Two possible solutions ;)

I had sim probs when I fitted the cossie cable and did exactly as you did [the clutch cable broke on the way to mot !!!!] it has run all summer with no probs .I intend to stiffen the pedal box as when the top is off it flexes considerably . Before this happended I had been having recuring probs with gear selection ,all of them but not continuasly and was getting well p-ssed of but all seems good now mower man
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I've plated over the clutch quadrant and modified the pedal to get more travel. as suggested. Now I get 40mm of cable pull for the full travel of the pedal which I'm assuming is enough?

 

I've tried a load of different adjustments of the ratchet adjuster and various thicknesses of washers to space out the outer cable - no noticeable improvement is any state and first gear is essentially impossible to engage with the engine running.

 

I'm coming to the conclusion that the clutch itself is the issue (either the pressure plate or the release bearing) so I spent an hour trying to drop the gearbox out but (as suspected), it's not possible with the engine in. I've managed to unbolt the pressure plate and frop the friction plate out which confirms it's an 8.5" plate so I can at least order a clutch and once I've got the parts I'll slide the engine forwards the extra inch I need to stick it all back together.

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I've gone for the nuclear option and decided to stick a new clutch in. On Sunday night I decided to see if I could drop the box out, the prop won't come off with the diff in place so I unbolted the prop, lowered the diff and this would allow the box to move rearwards.

 

Sadly it wan't enough to get the box out and I had about a 3" gap between the bellhousing and the block and I did manage to unbolt the pressure plate and drop the friction plate out. After a bit of lateral thinking, I decided to remove the flywheel so I could get the pressure plate off the input shaft and then remove the release bearing and clutch arm.

 

Re-assembly was pretty straightforward, fit clutch arm to box, fit release bearing to clutch arm, slide pressure plate over input shaft, bolt flywheel on, slide friction plate on input shaft, assemble pressure plate to flywheel with friction plate in position. All I needed to do then was rotate the engine and see that the outside of the friction plate was concentric to the outside of the pressure plate (easily done) and then bolt the pressure plate up.

 

The box was then jiggled back into place on the engine and the bell housing bolts were re-fitted. Tonight I just have to fit the gearbox rear mount and gear lever and re-fit the diff. From start to finish I reckon it's taken me about three and a half hours, no fluids drained, no gearbox oil spilled and the only tricky bit was unbolting and re-torquing the flywheel.

 

Hopefully this will sort the clutch issue out, if it doesn't then I obviously need more travel on my clutch pedal.

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The cable end of the clutch arm moves less than 2cm. The release bearing should be held in firmish contact with the diaphragm fingers when the pedal is at rest. This means there should be no slack in the whole system when the pedal is at rest. So as soon as your foot starts to move the clutch pedal, the clutch release arm should also start to move. OK there is a little delay as the pawl engages the quadrant but not more than a couple of mm. The self adjusting mechanism on the pedal will work very well if fitted properly. (Sierra drivers were not forever moaning about clutch problems).

The clutch cable is the commonest cause of problems. If you remove the cable from the car there should be no resistance to it's movement. Even a little stickiness means a new cable is needed as it stops the self adjuster from working properly. Pinto (Duratec, Sigma) fitted cars are all at risk of cooking the cable with exhaust heat unless cable routing and heat protection have been thought through. Zetecs don't have this problem.

 

Nigel

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I guess that makes me an odd ball builder...

 

I too have been wondering what to do about the bite point of the clutch, which is far too low at the moment. This thread has given me a range of ideas on how to raise it..

 

Thanks

 

Nige

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The new clutch seems to have cured the problem, it now goes into gear easily wit no snatching.

 

The old friction plate wasn't visibly worn, the pressure plate looks normal and un-damaged and the release bearing was only slightly worn. I can only presume that the diaphragm in the pressure plate wasn't working correctly but the main thing is it's now sorted.

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