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Cooling System Issues


Guest Dan_Norfolk

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Guest shaggy

You are going the right way ,now you had the info join the club mower man

 

Eye, all this free advice, solves one inherent problem, just think what issues could be sorted if you were a member

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Guest Dan_Norfolk

I have looked at the members area and it doesn't appear to be loading properly as the description of membership stops mid-sentence. Could someone give me a brief idea of what the benefits are to becoming a member? I recall from when I got my insurance that they asked if I was a member of any car clubs, does being a member therefore make a difference to the cost of insurance? Thanks

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I have looked at the members area and it doesn't appear to be loading properly as the description of membership stops mid-sentence. Could someone give me a brief idea of what the benefits are to becoming a member? I recall from when I got my insurance that they asked if I was a member of any car clubs, does being a member therefore make a difference to the cost of insurance? Thanks

the benefit of joining is keeping this club and forum alive so all the info that you have received is in one place and offered out to who ever asks there are a few other things like insurance discount and if you attend shows then gazebos etc are provided and sometimes free beer and hog roast.

 

The value imho is in the knowledge retained within the club and forum but unfortunately without paid up members and volunteers who give up there free time for free to run it, it will all at some point be gone..

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Thermostats! I may be wrong and I'm sure that someone will shoot me down in flames but I would be surprised that the water temperature in a pinto that is running well, hard and "up to temperature" will be nearer to 100, well above the opening point of the thermostat? From the opening point the water will be flowing round the engine AND the radiator. If it then continues to get hot and above the opening pressure of the valve in the cap (well above 100 as the system is pressurised) then surely you have a underlying problem? I would suggest that the designed oeprating temperature thermostat for the engine is the one to use! All you are doing by using a lower temperature one is delaying the speed at which the engine reaches operating temperature. My digital water temperature gauge which is positioned just up stream from the thermostat housing never sits below 85 once the engine is warm and goes up to 95 when thrasing the nuts of the thing. Once it went above 105 and was above 100 for a good 10 minutes when sat it traffic on a hot day and no water was lost. So, all the time between 85 and 105 the themostat opening temperature played no part in the cooling of the engine.

 

Radiators! Unless you know the angle of the air flow through the radiator (wind tunnel anyone?) you wont know the "best" angle for it in any particular car. However, what I do know is that you DONT want turbulance and you DO want it to flow at 90 degrees to the radiator face. Its all about heat exchange and so the more the air flows over the vanes the better, and more means faster air (turbulance SLOWS air) and bigger radiators. How many production car don't have the radiator at 90 degrees to the airflow? If it was better to have it an angle they would do that! Those that dont will have a space constraint or some aerodynamic issue.

 

Let battle commence!

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Guest Ian & Carole

The main task that a thermostat has to perform is to get the engine to operating temp. as quickly as possible, pure and simple.

The internal combustion engine works best at its peak operating temp, so the sooner it gets there the better.

 

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Megadodo, I've always had the same thoughts regarding the thermostats. If your water temp reaches 90+ then it shouldn't make any difference if the thermostat fitted is an 82 or 88, both will be fully open at 90 so no addition cooling will be gained above this temp.

 

Regarding the angled rads, since this post I've read a fair bit on different forums about the subject. If I've understood correctly, it's not the air speed or turbulence that's the key fact in this debate but by changing the direction of the air as it passes through the rad increases the amount of air-contact with the rad fins thus increases cooling efficiency.

 

F1 cars angle their rads but have to balance it against drag. Also most production car use this principle but instead of angling the rad (because it takes up more space) they use the front air grill to change the air direction so it's not hitting he rad at 90degrees.

 

Obviously the above is only my interpretation of the tons of info out on the tinterweb. It's also covered in great lengths on locost.

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As I am quite sad............no one going to disagree...... no? Okay, as I wandered out to my car in the car park last night I looked at loads of cars and almost without exception the front grills direct the airflow directly onto the radiator and are not angled by more than a few degrees. I am also confused by the assertion that the air hitting at an acute angle will extract more heat than airflow at 90 degrees to the fins? No matter how I look at it the more air you have flowing over the fins the better. Any form of turbulance slows the air down (that is fundamental aerodynamics!) and air hitting an acute angle will be more turbulant than if it is passing straight through the core. Having said all that I am still convinced that any over heating issues will be down to more fundamental issues like a small coolant volume (radiator too small), too small a fan, blocked water pathways, failing water pump, lack of egress of air from the engine bay.

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Youve kinda answered your own question by pointing out the turbulence.

Turbulent flow of fluids produce better heat exchange than laminar flow does.

 

So basically an angled rad produces air turbulence through it (laws of aerodynamics) and this turbulence gives better heat exchange (laws of fluid-dynamics). This is why angled rads give better heat transfer albeit not a vast improvement as there is a graph on locost (which i found the first time around but im buggered if I can find it now) showing rad efficiency at different angles based on constant air velocity. Basically there is only about 10% improvement going from 90deg to 60deg but then when you go past about 50 deg the performance drops off very quickly.

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Ah ha! So what you need then is lots of turbulent air. So I think the angle of attack may help a bit (as per your suggestion) but what is more important would getting the air turbulant before it hits the radiator. Any thoughts on how that could be acheived?

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I've just read an article on turbulent flow. One way to do it is to ensure that any ducting used increases in cross section form in to out. So ducting the air flow from the nose cone ensuring that the cross section increases before it hits the radiator should work. As the nose cone does that any way its just a case of ensurirng there is no leak past the radiator. Sounds simple ....ish!?

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