Car For Sale On Ebay

[Longboarder]

Warwick, to use the justification of restoring/rebuilding a deceased motor car you need to start the process with the remains of the said car in your possession to use in the rebuild. You cannot rebuild a car starting from just the chassis plate and V5. At best you can produce a replica. The relevant regulation states of a rebuilt car,

 

'In order to retain the original registration mark(and thus be exempted from SVA and paying road tax if historic vehicle {my words}):.....cars must use......The original unmodified chassis........or a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original.................And two other major components from the original vehicle

 

I fail to see how you can honestly describe a Robin Hood Lightweight Monocoque chassis as being of the same specification as a lotus 7 aluminium clad mild steel spaceframe. (To quote from one of your earlier examples I can indeed see how you could describe a new heritage MGB bodyshell as being of the same specification as the original.)

You further have to use two major components from the original vehicle. I fail to see even one component, major or minor, that you have listed in your advert that was likely to have ever physically been in a lotus 7.

 

What you have built is a loose replica of a lotus seven, just like the rest of us with RH/tiger/westie/locost/MNRs and yet somehow you seem to believe that because you happen to have the chassis plate and the log book of an old lotus 7 you can pretend that your lightweight is that lotus 7 rebuilt.

 

I know you don't accept this. I expect you believe that I have gone to hell in a handcart and that I am a deluded backstabber. I always felt that as long as you were doing no harm to anyone else and had found a regulation that allowed you a pretty suspect loophole to crawl through to get your car registered I would turn a blind eye and it was your business. Your car is a Robin Hood Lightweight without an SVA. You can only honestly offer it for sale as that.

 

Nigel

[Guest salty_monk]

You pays your money and.... plenty of wrongly registered vehicles out there in the world. Seems a lot of the Caterhams & Lotus sevens over here in the US are not 100% correct (mush easier to register a pre '65 car)

 

How many sevens are registered as a MK2 Escort convertible or a triumph or something to qualify for the free tax. Some early Westfields qualified by being made from a Cortina donor.

 

As long as it's for your own use or buyer is 100% aware of what they are buying, what you have done & the possible implications then I can't see a real problem. Anything else would be unfair on them as they might not have your experience. I would have been a lot more cagey than yourself about where I advertised it though probably as it is such a grey area.

 

Is it unfair to those who have done it the real way? Probably, but nobody said life was fair...

 

Dan

[Guest DRC7]

Registering a rebuilt vehicle, kit car and kit conversionIf you are rebuilding a vehicle, or building a vehicle from a kit or kit conversion, it will need to meet certain criteria before the vehicle can be registered. The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) local office will assign the original or an appropriate registration mark on the evidence provided.

 

Vehicles that have been rebuilt using a mix of new or used parts

In order to retain the original registration mark:

 

cars and car-derived vans must use:

The original unmodified chassis or unaltered bodyshell (i.e. body and chassis as one unit - monocoque); or a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original supported by evidence from the dealer or manufacturer (e.g. receipt).

 

And two other major components from the original vehicle – ie suspension (front & back); steering assembly; axles (both); transmission or engine.

 

If a second-hand chassis or monocoque bodyshell is used, the vehicle must pass a an enhanced single vehicle approval (ESVA) or single vehicle approval (SVA) test after which a "Q" prefix registration number will be allocated.

 

motorcycles must use:

Unmodified frame (original or new) and two other major components from the original vehicle; forks, wheels and engine or gear box.

 

If a second-hand frame is used the vehicle must pass a motorcycle single vehicle approval (MSVA) test after which a 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.

 

 

Kit Cars

Where all the parts of a vehicle are supplied new by the manufacturer. Subject to the provision of satisfactory receipts and a certificate of newness these vehicles will be registered under a current registration mark.

 

Kit cars which have been built using not more than one reconditioned component will also be registered under a current mark. This is subject to the provision of satisfactory evidence that the component has been reconditioned to an "as new" standard. An ESVA, SVA or MSVA test will be required.

 

 

Kit Conversions

This is where a kit of new parts is added to an existing vehicle or old parts are added to a kit comprising a manufactured body, chassis or monocoque bodyshell. The general appearance of the vehicle will change and result in a revised description on the registration certificate.

 

A vehicle will retain its donor registration mark if either the original unmodified chassis or unaltered monocoque bodyshell and two other major components are used. If a new monocoque bodyshell or chassis from a specialist kit manufacturer is used (or an altered chassis or bodyshell from an existing vehicle) together with two major components from a donor vehicle, an age related mark will be assigned. The mark will be based on the age of the donor vehicle. An ESVA, SVA or MSVA test will be required to register the vehicle.

 

Where there are insufficient parts from a donor vehicle or in cases where the original registration mark is unknown, an ESVA, SVA or MSVA certificate will be required to register the vehicle and a 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.

 

 

 

 

it may have been covered but its all here and warwick guess what COMPUTER SAYS NO

 

 

 

 

 

 

Trouble is you have not been able to register a new build kit that way any more hench the problems that may occur come mot time

[enforcer]

Well Warwick it is clear that despite all the experience and qualification of the dozens of people who have posted on this thread, and the vast majority condemning what you did to by-pass the legal requirements of SVA and registration of your car as a Robin Hood you obviously believe that you know best.

 

There is no point in continuing to argue with you on points such as the fact that not a single structural part of the RH Lightweight is similar to any unobtainable part of a Lotus 7 chassis.

 

I have to say that I admire your ingenuity. Most of us have found the whole SVA and registration of our cars a real and rewarding challenge. You have done what most of us could only dream of, by bamboozling the bureaucrat! Like the first drink-driver to get acquitted in court because the officer breathalysing him was not wearing a hat you appear to have got away with this (so far). He was still a drink driver. As for your integrity, I'm appalled.

 

You know that your car is untested and that VOSA will never approve certain unmodified aspects of the structure. They have ruled that the car is dangerous without modification. Despite clearly being aware of this you have ignored the SVA rulings by falsely representing it as a 1969 Lotus 7 to the DVLA, and it doesn't bother you in the slightest that you are selling it in this state.

 

Can't imagine you're going to win any more trophies for this Classic Car Restoration

[Guest zoomzoom]

Warwick you say.....

 

And if you read the advert I’m not selling it as a genuine or original lotus 7, but one rebuilt using new parts. So I’m not deluding anybody, maybe the ones who think I am cant see past their nose.

 

 

But on the ebay ad you say this...............

 

 

Basically this is registered as a 1969 Lotus, although I rebuilt it using modern technology

 

 

 

So your not deluding anybody but it is registered as a 1969 lotus

Who registered it ??

 

Looks like the only part from the car you found included in the build is the engine so if i want to rebuild my bmw z8 and can no longer get a chassis from bmw can i use a chassis from say toyota a two seater rwd chassis (like the pickup truck trashed on top gear) which is the same layout as a z8 and fit the engine and call it a rebuilt bmw z8........ don't think so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bob Tucker]

A few years back there was a spate of Duttons being bought for silly money (not very much).

The prices started to rise & it turned out that people were buying up a scrappy (but registered) Dutton

and putting those details onto a new (unregistered) 7 type car so avoiding SVA.

 

Just as dodgy, but at least when it got sold on the buyer got a newer (possibly better) car which pretty much matched the original Dutton, both having a space frame chassis.

 

Passing off a car with a RHE monocoque as a Lotus space frame chassis is indefensible.

Bob

[Shandylegs]

As has been said in past posts, there are many Kits that have been registered using documents from a donor car, or an older kit car.

 

Is there really any difference between this and a Cobra replica carrying a v5 that states Jaguar convertible or someone registering a brand new MK using a v5 that states Ford Sports on it?

 

All of the examples above would have circumnavigated the SVA so are potentially not of sufficient specification to have been on the road. I have a couple of questions for everyone:

 

-Does this not apply to any car registered prior to the SVA being introduced?

-Have any of you altered your car since it has been SVA’d?

-Yes it’s an extreme example, but is it really any worse than any of the original examples quoted above?

 

Yes in my opinion it stinks, but there will always be people who are prepared to push the boundaries of legality. Unfortunately things like this will eventually lead to over legislation and the death of the Kit Car industry!

[Guest STEVE OXON]

warwick,is there something we dont know.

which club is going down the pan. not THIS ONE by the looks of things

[Guest paulh]

Hi guys,

 

I noticed that all the responses so far were from (and rightly so) experienced kitcar builders.

I just wanted to add my thoughts as someone who is looking into building a RH.

 

If you see my previous posts, you will see that i am considering building a lightweight, due to the restricted budget i am on. I want to thank each and every one of you for your responses, because last night i came very close to placing a bid on this car! I spotted it on ebay and thought it might be a quick way for me to become a robin hood owner, without having to go through all the strengthening and SVA problems of the lightweight!!

 

Warwick, as far as i can see, from someone who is at the moment just a punter, i would have purchased your car thinking it was a fully SVA'd Robin Hood Lightweight! When infact is is something completely different, with none of the parts remaining from the original vehicle.

 

This "fleecing" of the poor unsuspecting customer stinks

 

My two pence worth!

[Jon Bradbury]

Paul, I think you would have had recourse, though, because the Sale of Goods Act applies to second hand stuff as well as new. Goods are supposed to be accurately described and fit for purpose.

[Guest Tim Norman]

Sorry, I seem to have missed most of this, I have been in Amsterdam over the weekend. When exactly did the Club go down the pan. Seems to me we are all sticking up for it and quite possibly the poor sap who will eventually end up with what isn't a Lotus 7. I take the point about reshelling but I'm sorry this strikes me as a bloody disgrace. Even your profile states the vehicle is a lightweight!

[Mat-Moo]

Re-shell of what exactly? A pinto engine?! This is a lightweight through and through, illegally registered IMO.

[Guest tom2b]

Even the engine from the donor isnt the orginal engine!

[Longboarder]

Just looked at the locost site which also has this thread running naughty thread. Warwick has not managed to convince them it's anything but a ringer. More deluded backstabbers, just like us. Much be catching.

 

Nigel

[enforcer]

"Slanderous trouble-makers" indeed