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24v Cossie Engine Question.


Guest boggie

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Hi all,

A bit off the Hood topic but I need some help. I am (still) trying to find the right engine to use in a 'Fury' kitcar I am building for weekend fun / hillclimbs and next years' Cannonball Run for charity. The engine I need should be lightweight, at least 6 cylinders, non-turbo and output (after tuning) 300 BHP.

I am considering using the Granada 24V Cosworth with throttle body injection and big valve heads but I am concerned about the weight of the engine.

Can anyone tell me if the Cossie is alloy or iron please?

Cheers,

Boggie

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Iron blcoks are too comon im affraid,

even the old Rover V8 all alloy engine is quite restricted in output max being 150hp/ltr

 

I would go japanese. There engineering is the best in thew world,

Toyotas engines are bullet proof.

the 6cyl 2JZ GTE 3.0litre is amazing, capable of 1500hp.

Twin turbo charged as standard produces 330hp. cheap upgrades for less than a grand will push that to 460hp+

Iron block and alloy head.

a 460hp engine will throw a ToyotaSupra from 0-60 in 4 seconds.

 

a 900hp engine will throw a ToyotaSupra from 0 - 150mph in 10 seconds.

 

 

hmmmm Supra.....

for tuning info and all the parts parts.

 

http://www.suprastore.com

 

tak.

 

p.s its my favourite car.. B)

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Thanks Takumi,

An interesting proposition but there is still the weight to consider, I want to keep the car featherlight. I realise that with 460BHP accelleration would be outrageous on a 500KG car but I still want to flick it into corners and stop the thing. Certainly worth considering though.

B.

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How about a 4AGE 1.6 Toyota MR2 Mk1 or 2.0 3SGE MR2 Mk2 for alloy engines.

 

The 4AGE is only about 122bhp standard but I have seen it taken to 170bhp with cam and twin carbs. The engine weight (without alternator + starter motor) is around 60kgs.

 

The 3SGE is around 173bhp standard and is an alloy engine again.

 

Now if your looking at forced induction. The 3SGTE used in celica GT-fours and imported MR2 turbos is standard at 245bhp and easily tunable to 300bhp. I know several guys pushing 350bhp with some slight mods.

 

Also using forced induction is a supercharged version of the 4AGE (called the 4AGZE) which pushes 165bhp and 155 lb/ft torque in a very small 1600 engine.

 

I know a company that supplies these engines, they are more popular in the Australian kit car scene because of availability. Not many people have done it over here.

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Cheers for the replies but I am looking to get a V6 or V8 sound thrown in. I have found a TVR Griffith 5.0 V8 with only 19K miles at a breakers but he wants £4000+ VAT for the engine + box with all ancillaries. Good value but too much money for the budget methinks.

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What about twin bike engines?

 

A pair of Kawasaki ZX12 or Suzuki GSX1300RR Hayabusa motors should do the trick.

 

Featherweight units, engine clutch and gearbox all in a nice small lightweight package.

 

Theres that 7 styled car running twin ZX9R motors that goes 0-60 in about 3 seconds or something.

 

A few firms now turbocharge the Hayabusa motors and reckon on a "safe" 300 bhp.

 

Now two of those should be a bit quick.......!!

 

Regards,

 

Kieran

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Boggie,

I think you're going to be looking at bike engines. for the sort of featherweight you seem to be after but I wouldn't want to carry any weight with one, like maybe he luggage you'll need on a long event like the cannonball, because they just don't provide the torque you get from a heavier engine (the Hyabusa is the closest option but.....).

 

Have you considered a K-series. They are all alloy and cheap as chips second hand. The motoring press reckoned Ford had just caught up to them with the Zetec (and that was 7 years after the K-series appeared). OK so it's not a six or eight cylinder lump but Caterham use them to get Sevens to 60 in under 4 seconds. I think Dave Andrews is the best person to speak to about them and throttle body equipment as he's now specialising in tuning them (I think).

 

Not sure if the KV6 would be an option you should be able to get an oldish Rover 827 for buttons and there you have your all alloy V6. There is a guy in Preston (Moor Lane Garage) who has been sticking them on the end of type-9 boxes and shoving them in old MG's for customers and racing them for himself.

 

Iain

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Guest Stevieshood

Hi,

 

Personally, I think you should steer clear of V6 iron boat anchors, especially with turbos on them. Something like a lightweight front-engined road-going Fury would handle dismisally with that shoe-horned in. My personal choice would be a Duratec 2.0 HE 16V mated to a type 9 with the correct gear ratios in it. They weigh 105 kg with all the bits and can be tuned up to 280 bhp.

 

I done some research work in to the 2.5 V6 Duratec and it is a none starter with such a limited head casting. The Rover KV6 is a bit better and is used in the WSR MG touring cars. The Peugeot/Renault or Jaguar 3.0 V6 has more potential and can easily put out 300 bhp with some throttle bodies. They are all alloy blocks and weigh around 145-165 kg dry weight. Gearboxes could still be a problem.

 

Alternatively, just nick the running gear out of a Honda S2000, which comes with an all-alloy(I think) 2.0L 237 bhp engine, a correctly-ratioed 6 speed box and an LSD. Sorted!

 

Hope that helps.

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Guest Stuart Ainslie

Boggie,

 

Bike-power is the way to go...

 

My boss, based in Chicago, runs a lightweight Westie (about 450Kg, I think) with a 1300 Hayabusa engine with nitrous - pushes out 250 bhp.

He has recently shipped the car out to the States from the UK and is running it in some Yanky street car series and is apparently wiping the floor with them all....

 

The car is very reliable and he used it regularly when based in the UK - that would be the way I would go. Even considered a conversion for the 2b but the weight of the 2b put me off..

 

Stuart.

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280 BHP duratec would be very nice except for the price tag. Mountune are asking £12,600 PLUS VAT. If you were thinking of spending that sort of cash there was an interesting 2.0L V8 engine at Donnington which was producing 300ish BHP on carbs with injection in development.

 

Nigel

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Interesting collage of ideas - don't you just love forums!

 

I quite like the idea of using Honda S2000 but it is a little too revy. I was considering buying one so test drove it - amazing once you get it going but a bit gutless at low revs.

 

Duratec is even more expensive than the 5.0L TVR engine I have been offered.

 

Bike engines are very light but have absolutely no torque and would make the Honda engine seem as revvy as a Perkins Diesel! Also no reverse gear, just the option of a starter motor operated item.

 

The Audi 1.8T series are fabulous engines with torque to pull a house down, this is the reason I chose the Audi against the Honda. Mine puts out 275BHP with 280 Lb/ft so this would be a great engine in a 520KG car. Can be tuned to over 350BHP!

 

However, none of these will give me the sound of a V engine so I am still at a loss. I kinda like the idea of the Rover 827 V6 as it would be cheap, although the 177BHP output is a little under my target 300 but I guess they could be tuned.

 

The ideal situation is somehow getting hold of a bottom end which accepts two bike engines. If I remember correctly there was a company that made a car called the Rocket (or something) that did just this. They bolted two donor bike engines (Hyabusa?) onto a special bottom end / crank assembly with a close ratio gearbox attached. This would create a 2.6L V8 with over 350 BHP, you would even get a reverse!

 

The company went into liquidation so I don't know what would have happened to any bits and pieces they may have had lying around. I doubt our engine budget of 2K could cover it but it would be quite a find! I have been searching the web for info but have rther unsuprisingly come up with nowt.

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