Group Buy - Improved 2b Wishbones

[Joel]

This is primarily to find out if there would be any interest in getting a batch of 'improved' wishbones made up for the 2B, but also to see what ideas you clever-cloggs have about the 2B front suspension in general, and where improvements could be made.

 

Right, so it seems there's various issues with the 2B wishbones - ball joints unscrewing; no top-clearance for the coil-over, which means you can't get a good angle to mount them, which can result in the bottom wishbone bending; general geometry problems; and I'm certainly no expert but I don't think they're long enough; etc etc.

 

I know most of these problems can be individually addressed, but maybe a rethink is in order?

 

So, feel free to shoot me down (I appreciate this might be the least of people's worries with the present economic climate), but would there be any interest in having a newly-designed batch of wishbones made up?

[Guest gdc]

This is primarily to find out if there would be any interest in getting a batch of 'improved' wishbones made up for the 2B, but also to see what ideas you clever-cloggs have about the 2B front suspension in general, and where improvements could be made.

 

Right, so it seems there's various issues with the 2B wishbones - ball joints unscrewing; no top-clearance for the coil-over, which means you can't get a good angle to mount them, which can result in the bottom wishbone bending; general geometry problems; and I'm certainly no expert but I don't think they're long enough; etc etc.

 

I know most of these problems can be individually addressed, but maybe a rethink is in order?

 

So, feel free to shoot me down (I appreciate this might be the least of people's worries with the present economic climate), but would there be any interest in having a newly-designed batch of wishbones made up?

 

hi joel

seems like an excelent idea , i am a lightweight so the 2b bits pass me by a bit , having said that i do have a 2b here at the mo so any mods or new wishbones that inproved the front end would interest me , i dont however feel able to contribute to the modifications at the moment , cos of lack of knoweledge re the prob .

but good luck to you and i hope some additional ideas and support come your way .

 

cos theres only a couple of 2bs out there ?

 

graham

[philshelton]

What are you proposing in way of improvement and as a suggestion would it be possable to alow for easyer adjustment of camber IE not having to take out top ball joint adjust refit check take out again re adjust.

[Guest Alex Spratt]

I also have been thinking about this recently (jumping the gun a bit as i need to pass the sva first), i don't thing the design/geometry can't be improved purely by fitting new wishbones. The mounting points would possibly need to be moved, espesially the top mounts look like they need dropping some. The longer dummy mcpherson strut that some cars have look like they could improve geometry.

 

Thats just my thoughts and like i say i need to get ready for sva first!!!

[Joel]

What are you proposing in way of improvement and as a suggestion would it be possable to alow for easyer adjustment of camber IE not having to take out top ball joint adjust refit check take out again re adjust.

 

I'm not really proposing anything myself as such, apart from the initial idea, as I don't really have a clue about suspension setup and geometry and all that stuff. However, I know there's a lot of people out there with a lot of knowledge and experience in this area - good engineers who understand the workings and have experience setting up race cars and the like.

 

So if we could just pool ideas for now, which your camber adjustment is a great example of, then we can set the technical brains to work, and ultimately get something made up.

[philshelton]

I'm not really proposing anything myself as such, apart from the initial idea, as I don't really have a clue about suspension setup and geometry and all that stuff. However, I know there's a lot of people out there with a lot of knowledge and experience in this area - good engineers who understand the workings and have experience setting up race cars and the like.

 

So if we could just pool ideas for now, which your camber adjustment is a great example of, then we can set the technical brains to work, and ultimately get something made up.

sounds good to me now all we is the guys with the real knowledge to design something although i think moving the mounts might be a bit much

[fry61]

Would be interested in purchasing new improved wishbones--sorry can't help on the technical side--an on-line tutorial on suspension parameters would help my understanding if any-one wishes to talk to the bone-heads like me.

[Guest qwerty_100]

Would be interested in purchasing new improved wishbones--sorry can't help on the technical side--an on-line tutorial on suspension parameters would help my understanding if any-one wishes to talk to the bone-heads like me.

Hi Guys I Have fitted a wishbone kit to my 2b and the supplied kit from GBS is really very good with plenty of advice from Richard if needed.

[stevedohc2b]

If Richard hall can not help

 

I think Martin Keen, he has loads of knowledge and is a very nice bloke. ie MK engineering

Stephen

[Guest Dan_Beeston]

Not sure we need to move the mounts particularly, Dropping the upper mounts should help if the vehicle has a tendancy to roll, but some careful consideration of wishbone geometry (and the length of the new top hat adapter) should allow us to place instant centre closer to the C of G, avoiding much of the need for camber change in roll.

 

I think it would be worth building a bit more caster into new front wishbones though (or making it adjustable, which is not so easy) It would give a bit more weight to the steering but should help feel and feedback considerably.

 

Caveat:- It's been a long time since I studied any of this stuff, so it's all hypotothesis!

 

I've not had chance to read this thouroughly, but it looks sensible, and gives an idea what we're up against when trying to specify a design for double wishbone suspension!:-

Clicky about 'bones & 'ting

 

Plus it's worth remembering we're trying to design something to suit lots of peoples cars, the pick up points might be roughly the same relative to each other, but we all run different vehicle masses, weight distributions, tyre offsets, ride heights, rolling radius etc, all which affect the calculations

 

So, as we say in the trade, JFDI!

[Joel]

...easier adjustment of camber....

 

Rally Design do camber adjustment sleeves for less than £10 a pair, so it seems pretty feasible that they could be incorporated.

The main problem is the top wishbones are more of a 'y' shape than a traditional 'v' (where by the top drag link screws into the actual wishbone tube rather than a seperate sleeve). There's room to move the rearmost mount out by quite a bit (the area where you normally have to pack-out with a dozen washers - see attached pic), which would have the added benefit of giving far more clearance for the coilover.

 

Or you could weld the sleeve tube parallel with the straight wishbone tube, similar to this pc, except more of a y shape obviously), which would move the upright-mounting point forward by the thickness of whatever tube you used, but I'm sure that wouldn't be a problem if you make the same adjustment on the lower wishbone.

[Joel]

Hmmm....it won't let me attach a picture of my top wishbone mount packed-out with washers, but I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about.

[Tazzzzman1]

Hi,

Just about to put my 2B in for SVA on Tues. Have never been a big fan of the sliding pillar arrangement that is currently fitted so I have been considering a suspension change sometime in the not too distant future. Count me in, just don't tell the missus!

 

cheers

Terry

 

 

[Guest salty_monk]

I wonder if we could use the ones Richard developed for his sliding pillar conversion or a variation of them?

[Guest RJHALL]

The standard 2b double wish bone setup is not perfect, it tends to under steer mid corner as weight shifts and the camber on the out side wheel goes positive, also the steering feals light and unconected with the road. there are a few things that can be change that make a big different with out a full redesign and the cost in doing so. These are fitting longer stub axel adaptors and ether moving or fitting 2b2 wishbone at the top to increase the castor. on my own 2b i played about with the suspenion quite abit this made the car a lot quiker and give more feed back. these parts are avalible as they are standard on the new 2b2 as well as other improved parts, most of which will fit earler 2b. the sliding pilar converion is very different.

 

Richard