Got The Zetec Running

[Guest mcramsay]

righty ho, was trying to get the zetec going today, spent around 8 hours in the garage, in the cold and i got the mother of all problems, connected a lamp up to the oil pressure sender and cranked the engine over and couldnt get any pressure, the light stayed on. (the oil was at the right level before you ask if i actually filled it up!!) anyway i gave it a few more cranks and still couldnt get pressure. i gave richard a ring and he asked about the pickup pipe i was using ( im using the scholar engines lowline sump and their pick up pipe) however i didnt use a gasket between the pick up pipe and where it attaches to the block...richard suggested i could be suckin in air through there rather than oil. (i did check the surface finsh of the pick up pipe and ran it over a lapping stone to ensure it was flat) and there were no gaps inbetween the pipe and block. moving on, i took the oil pressure sender out and it was dry as a bone-confirmed my suspicions that there was no oil flow atall. i then cranked over a few more times and then eventually i started to get oil coming out of the sender hole. i put the sender back in connected up the lamp and cranked, bobs your uncle the light went out. but im still not convinced all is well in the oil system, when cranking i coudlnt seem to see any oil splashing about in the head(through the oil filler cap), moving on again! the engine started after a few turns, and i opend the oil filler cap - should i see oil splashing about like mad in there atall? the engine wasnt running great, it wont rev, just dies when you open up the throttle atall (i have calibrated the throttle pot) and back fired through the throttle bodies when i try to rev, any ideas? (im using a 175 bhp map from GBSC that they got from their trip to emerald) also this oil issue - is there any way that i positivley or visually check there is oil flow at the head? or am i being a woman and if the oil pressure light goes out then all is ok? any advice would be grand cheers!

[miikae]

With reference to your oil pressure, if it was me for peace of mind i would have fitted a capillary oil pressure gauge to see what the pressure realy was and watch it see if it fluctuated much and was not too low on idle just incase the pickup is not sealed properly, if in any doubt i would have also fitted a thin gasket to the pickup to be on the safe side. Try to beg or borrow one if you havnt already got a gauge. At the very least it will put your mind at ease.

 

Mike

[Guest mcramsay]

i can get a gauge pretty easily from work on monday, i just need to work out what thread the oil pressure sender is and find or make an adaptor. i was thinking i could just remove the oil temp sender on the head, or the cam position sensor and crank the engine and have a look inside, with either of those removed im pretty sure oil will come flying out. and if oil comes out then there must be oil circulating around the head...

[miikae]

On the pinto they where NPT 1/4" for the block i think it was and 1/8" for the gauge capillary fitting.

 

Mike

[Guest mcramsay]

cheers, i will get the vernier calipers and thread gauages out tomorrow!

[Longboarder]

The blacktop zetec pump is not self priming. It needs some oil in it to work. If the engine has been standing for a year or two since manufacture the pump may be dry.

 

The way I have primed it from a dry start in the past is to remove the oil filter, plugs and cam cover. Fill the filter, oil the cams.

Make a small bath out of a tin can to bluetack to the filter mount. Difficult to describe but the pic shows what I mean. You can then fill the half can with oil and manualy wind the engine backwards. The oil drops back down to prime the pump. Do it about 4 tin can fulls. Then remove tin can, replace filter, leave plugs out and spin the engine over on the starter. Oil light should go out within 5 seconds. If not repeat priming. When pressure is good you can move on to the rest of the engine start checks.

 

I don't know the scholar sump but there must be a seal. The raceline sump uses an O ring, standard uses a paper gasket. If the scholar sump uses a cut down ford pickup then you have to have the paper gasket.

 

There is a baffle plate below the oil filler cap so all you can see is the top surface of this. Take the cam cover off. You can now see the state of oiling. You should have done this before you turned the engine over so that you could pour half a pint of oil over the cams and followers.

 

First job is to drop the sump and put a gasket between the pickup pipe and the base of the oil pump it bolts too.

 

Wether you have damaged the engine I don't know. Possibly. Possibly not. I hope there was some oil in the bearings when you were turning it over. You can strip the bottom of the engine to examine the bearing shells or trust to luck and see what oil pressures register when the engine is hot.

 

Nigel

[Guest mcramsay]

hopefully all is well, the oil pressure light goes out after about 2 secs. im going to take the cam cover off and check things up there and make sure i can see oil flowing about (might get messy) could the pick up pipe still be causing a problem (becase of the lack of gasket) even if im getting oil pressure?

[Longboarder]

As I said I don't know the scholar shortened sump kit but if there should be a gasket or O ring it must be fitted. You might be lucky and have a perfect seal, but it's a steel flange to ally pump body just to complicate things further and the chance of sucking air into the oil stream is there, if not now then later.

Sounds like it has eventualy primed itself. A look under the cam cover while you turn the engine over for a few seconds without firing it up will not be messy.

 

Nigel

[Guest mcramsay]

ok ive taken the sump off and fitted a paper gasket. and its all back together now. so ive got to go into town then when i come back i will prime the pump and try to get some oil pressure again, and then chek for pressure at the head. how does the cam shaft actually get lubricated? as i cant see any obvious oil pathways once the cam cover was off.

[Guest mcramsay]

well after i fitted the paper gasket, i put it all back together and cranked it over and got oil pressure after around 5 secs. which is ALOT quicker than last time, now everytime i turn it over i the light goes pretty much straight out. i ran the engine without the cam cover on. the oil situation isnt as violent as i thought it might be, i expected oil splashing about like crazy (like in the pinto as it uses the spray bar) however on the zetec it looks like oil is fed up underneath the cam lobes through the hydraulic valve follower. does that sound about right? do you recon i should trust the pressure switch or try and get a gauge and check the actual value of pressure? (im sure the issue is sorted now but i just dont want to ruin the engine)

also the engine revs will pick up a bit now, but it just starts backfiring through the exhaust and i get the odd flame out of the throttle body. sounds like a timing issue perhaps?

Edited January 16, 2010 by mcramsay

[Longboarder]

I'm glad you can see a difference in the startup to oil light out time. It's pretty instant on mine too. I think I would assume that all is well for now till you can reliably run the engine up to temperature and see what the oil pressure does when hot. After all you are not going to have the engine under load or rev the nuts off it. I would trust the pressure switch for now.

 

Rough running on the engine will require a systematic approach. Is it built correctly. Manifolds bolted up, silencer on, jenveys on properly with intake trumpets and all sealed/gasketed/airtight. Is fuel pressure correct, pumps OK and the fuel fresh. Is cam timing OK. I think you can assume the emerald software and GBS map are OK. Have the correct calibrations for air and water senders been set and throttle pot set and saved. Plugs correct, leads good and properly fitted. Loom wired correctly. Is the ecu recognising all the temp senders/TP/CPS and showing sensible data for them. I don't know emerald but my omex gives this realtime data when I switch the ignition on. Today it would have reported air and engine temps at 10C, TPS closed but full open if I press the throttle and CPS = revs if I cranked it, (about 400rpm).

 

Nigel

[Andy Spencer]

I've got a couple of maps you can try. I'm not surprised that it won't run properly, none of us are running the same map yet on different cars - even with same engine, injectors, manifolds, fuel pressure and inlet system. Still can't work out why. But don't ignore Nigel's sound advice, that's what to check first, as many of the issues are often mechanical / setup.

Good luck

Andy