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Car Cut Out And Now Won't Start


Guest subaru

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Guest subaru

Hi Folks,

Just as i had the beast up all sorted, it cut out suddenly yesterday. I thought it might be fuel ( i probably had 4 litres left) so topped up from my jerry can but with out joy. Took the fuel pipe off aft of the pump and there was fuel in it. Breakdown man said there was fuel in the fuel rail but no spark. I changed the coil pack but with out joy. Seems like there is no spark on cyls 4 and 3 haven't tried the others yet. The break down fella tested the battery at 12.5 volts so seemed to think the battery is ok. I am wondering how i test current in to the coil pack and how is it fitted in to the circuit of engine management system and injectors or could my HTs be nackered. They look ok but i guess thats not the case. Many thanks again Chris

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Guest The Modfather

If you have no spark on any of the leads then the coil pack is duff, and as far as I know there is no way to fix, but to replace. Happened on my Focus last year, running fine, cut out, would only run on 3 cylinders, AA man said new coil pack needed. £25 later and was still running on 3. Back to the shop and another coil pack and refitted, now running on 4 and back to it's old self!!!!!

 

The coil pack you tested, was that new? Try another from a car that works and see.

Hope you sort it, but don't be fooled into thinking that new is always the best.

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Guest Stuartl

Hi Folks,

Just as i had the beast up all sorted, it cut out suddenly yesterday. I thought it might be fuel ( i probably had 4 litres left) so topped up from my jerry can but with out joy. Took the fuel pipe off aft of the pump and there was fuel in it. Breakdown man said there was fuel in the fuel rail but no spark. I changed the coil pack but with out joy. Seems like there is no spark on cyls 4 and 3 haven't tried the others yet. The break down fella tested the battery at 12.5 volts so seemed to think the battery is ok. I am wondering how i test current in to the coil pack and how is it fitted in to the circuit of engine management system and injectors or could my HTs be nackered. They look ok but i guess thats not the case. Many thanks again Chris

 

 

Hi Chris,

 

Even if it was only getting a spark to 2 cylinders it should at least sound like it wants to start even though it wont.

 

Like Daz said, try a known working item if you can as new items dont always mean they work! Your HT leads wouldnt all fail at once and make the car cut out. Could there still be an immobiliser somewhere in the donor's loom that has kicked in?

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Guest subaru

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your help really useful. I have found that a fuse had gone possibly connected to the coil pack, i have only connected this with a bit of wire. The car is now like Daz's focus its running on three cylinders. I have taken each lead off to see how the running is effected and i think its either cylinder 4 or 3. i guess i had better do a spark test and take it from there but could be another duff coil pack.

Many thanks chris

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Guest subaru

Hi all,

i have tried two new coil packs and a new fuse and its still running rough. Hard to tell if its only running on three as taking each plug out doesn't make a huge amount of difference. I have been told that it has had fuel pressure probs due to the regulator in the past, could this be a fuelling issue or still electrical? I could change the plugs and leads but plugs were only changed a year ago and have cleaned up well. The Hts might need changing but there is still a spark on on all four. The prob for me with with this engine is that it runs on jenvey throttle bodies and Emerald ECU so basicaly i am stuffed

Many thanks chris

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it runs on jenvey throttle bodies and Emerald ECU so basically I am stuffed.

 

Why do you say that? The software and a ton of information is on the emerald site. You can connect up your laptop and confirm you have readouts of crank position sensor, throttle-pot, air and engine temperatures. If the engine won't run but those are giving sensible figures you have narrowed the possible faults. If you have concerns about fuel pressure fit a gauge and T piece. Your injectors probably want 3 bar. Any idea what they're currently getting?

 

Zetec is a solid engine, emerald is excellent kit. Check your low tension wiring. Check fuelrail pressure. Only weakness is it kills spark plugs if running a bit rich. Try new plugs. More likely to be that than other ignition components.

 

Nigel

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Hi Chris

As Nigel says you've got a great bit of well proven kit there and a great car (Rich Hall's old one) so don't panic. If you've got your laptop connected then I'm happy to run through some diagnostics with you over the phone. If not I'll try and call in again when passing sometime soon. It'll almost certainly be something minor. I always find one cylinder misses when I take plug leads off as they don't always engage back on properly. If so, take off and replace each one very carefully just to be sure.

 

Cheers

Andy

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Guest subaru

Hi Guys,

I say that i am stuffed because thats how it feels. To me computers and electronics are a foreign Language, even a guy at Robin hood laughed when i said who built the car. I have got new sparks and HTs so will take it from there. Thanks for the advice gents and i may need to take up the offer of a phone call. I have a converter lead for my lap top that took my wizzo mate 2 hours to set up and read the Emerald program cos of some mumbo jumb stuff, encription. Taxi.

cheers chris

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Guest subaru

Hi Chris

As Nigel says you've got a great bit of well proven kit there and a great car (Rich Hall's old one) so don't panic. If you've got your laptop connected then I'm happy to run through some diagnostics with you over the phone. If not I'll try and call in again when passing sometime soon. It'll almost certainly be something minor. I always find one cylinder misses when I take plug leads off as they don't always engage back on properly. If so, take off and replace each one very carefully just to be sure.

 

Cheers

Andy

Hi Andy,

Many thanks for the offer. I now have lap top connectivity so it would be great if i could give you a call some time. I have fitted new plugs and Ht leads. I guess in the mean while i can try check fuel pressure.

cheers chris

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Guest subaru

Hi All,

I am awaiting a pressure gauge to connect on to the fuel pressure reg. In the mean time are there any other checks i can do. ie What is low tension wiring. The car runs but is is still very rough. Playing with the fuel reg allows it to idle or not but is it so lumpy. The rev dropping from 750rpm to 250rpm thwn back up. I am beginning to think that the engine may have some mechanical issues.

Many thanks chris

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Chris - drop me your number again on a PM and I'll call or text you to arrange a time for a call. Next step is to check throttle pot, air and water temp sensors, crank pos sensor and one or two other bits on the live screen which we can do.

Have you mechanically checked throttle bodies for even butterfly opening, and also checked none of the balance tubes or air balance holes have come open?

 

Sounds like fuel pressure may be a factor if its idling better with different fuel pressures.

 

Thanks

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Oh well, the plot thickens a little on this one.

I did a Hoodie home visit to Chris on way back from London tonight. Fired car up and as he says it really is a bag of nails. Wasn't even close to being driveable.

Proceeded to:

Connect laptop. Checked crank position, air temp, coolant temp sensors, voltage, throttle position sensor. All fine. Ran engine up and got exactly the readings you'd expect across all parameters.

 

Connected pressure gauge to fuel regulator. Showed 3.5 bar so lowered it slightly to 3, ran slightly better but still major misfire. Mixture smelt rich but no black smoke and engine was cold so ECU would have enrichment on anyway. Enrichment settings in ECU program similar to mine so should be OK.

 

Checked mechanical action of throttle bodies and linkage, butterflies, looked for obvious air leaks, all fine.

 

Car has new plugs, HT leads and is on its 2nd new coil pack. Low tension wiring looked physically OK but ran out of time to do any tests. Good spark on all 4 cylinders. Car was low on oil and water but not catastrophically and no sign of gunge anywhere to indicate gasket failure or oil / water mixing.

 

Chris thinks some of the mechanics looking after the car have modified the original ECU program. So I then proceeded to upload Chris's ECU program to save and download his original to the ECU from when that car was rolling roaded (Rich Hall gave me this ages ago). Ran terribly, even worse. Then uploaded my car's program, which was very different in terms of settings. Big difference, much better, but still a bad damned misfire. And mine's not the program it was rolling roaded to. Still doesn't explain the sudden problem so probably revert back to original program for consistency to look elsewhere.

 

At this stage had to get on the road home but I'm a bit stumped. Lots of potential issues eliminated but more questions running through mind. Beginning to think its either low tension wiring fault or a mechanical issue. There's no mechanical horror noises when engine running but doesn't sound crisp when firing.

 

I'm wondering whether the timing belt has slipped a tooth when the car suddenly cut out on Chris, so have advised him to check cam timing (easy to do visually) although I think unlikely. After that probably someone to test the LT wiring. After that poss compression test etc and some proper ignition diagnostics as that's the issue that caused the first breakdown.

 

Any other ideas? (Cue Longboarder!!!!)

 

Cheers

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Guest subaru

Hi Andy,

Many thanks for doing a Hoodie visit and coming out of your way. The support has really picked me up on the Hood Mission. I sensed you are more frustrated than me.. sorry about that. i learnt so much about the car in the short period of time and really feel it was time well spent. I am looking forward to getting in running then up on to the Emerald Rollig Road for fine tuning. I am going to check the cam belt as you have advised and i feel quite confident about this one!

cheers chris

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Guest The Modfather

Umm, I would suggest then if everything seems to be within the parameters, that the next thing to check is the compression to make sure you haven't cracked a ring. A holed piston, umm, it's happened in the past but very unlikely. If the car was low on oil there could be a good chance of ring damage, although it would've had to have been low for quite a while.

The 2.0 zetecs have oil sprayers that spray oil into the bores to aid cooling and bore lubrication, and if you are low on oil this could cause too much heat, and damage. I cracked a ring in my very first car, a mini 1275GT, that stumped us until my neighbour done a compression test.

 

I believe that the hire shop HSS hire out comp testers? Didn't the breakdown man test this though?????

 

Do a comp test, then if thats ok then all it can be is electrical.

 

Hope you get it sorted soon, but it has shown you the finer side of car mechanics, and you have learnt from it in the process, which isn't all bad.

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Thinking about this again overnight, a comp test is definitely a good next step as Daz suggests. That would probably identify any cam timing issues as well.

The catch tank had been collecting quite a bit of oil.....lets hope that's not a sinister sign.

 

No probs on the visit Chris, yes was frustrated as don't like leaving without problem at least identified if not solved! Might start carrying comp tester and multimeter in tin top! Glad you found it useful anyway.

 

Keep going and you'll get there in the end.

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