Rust On Cam Lobes

[Guest Jomeo69]

Afternoon all.

 

Today's issue. There have been a few recently.

 

On inspection today looking through the oil filler hole you can see and feel rust on the cam lobe of cyl 4. Now we have been running the car a bit recently, especially now it starts first time on the key. We have only really had it running for half hour at a time and it does run quite well now if a little rich and hot.

 

So could this be due to us taking the crank vent at the top of the engine to a catch tank that is lower than the engine? Or could this be something more sinister? It's a 2 ltr zetec which was new from rh when we brought the kit.

Also if we were to start it with the rust on the lobes what sort of damage could it do to the pedestalls under the lobe.

We havnt had time to take the rocker cover off and have a look at the state of the others yet but will do when we get a free day.

 

Anyway ideas are always welcome.

Many thanks all.

Joe

[agent_zed]

don't know what others may suggest but i'd not run the engine until i found the problem. If you aren't getting oil to the camshaft you will do all sorts of damage.

If its water in the oil then your headgasket may have gone. Is there any white residue around the filler i.e. oil/water emulsion?

 

Where is hte rust? actually on the lobes or just on the shaft.

 

hth

[Guest Jomeo69]

Well there is oil getting to the cam.

It sprays out of the filler neck when the engine runs. And the rust is physically on the cam lobe face.

There is a White emulsion on the filler cap but I took that as it only having little runs and not having chance to burn off.

This is really really annoying.

We shouldn't have to change the head gasket on a 0 mile engine.

So if anyone has any ideas please shout.

Many thanks

Joe

I would do a compression test but that could do the lobes some real damage as well.

Edited March 28, 2011 by Jomeo69

[Longboarder]

There should be a baffle fixed inside the cam cover below the oil filler hole. You should not be able to see or touch any cam lobes. You may just be touching and seeing the back of the baffle. I suggest you remove the cam cover and take a good look. Check to see what if anything has happened to the baffle. Examine the cam lobes carefully. Some new cams don't come with shiny lobes but with a phosphated coating which seems quite rough and totaly wrong, but is how they're meant to be but I don't know if zetec cams have this coating from new. And cams are made of cast 'iron' and in the presence of a little oil don't rust easily.

A bit of condensation in the engine is expected if you are not running it up to temperature. After all it can happen in your tintop if you are just doing a five mile daily commute.

 

Nigel

[Guest mower man]

Not knowing much at all about the Zetec I would whip the cam cover off to find out how much rust is in there ,if theres a lot, photos and some discusion with the supplier [GBS?] if it's confined to one lobe very gentle rub with 600 wet and dry to confirm damage or simply slight surface rust ,if it is deep back to supplier ,if only surface staining polish it off ,add a tin of Wynns or STP and run it Iwould inform GBS before any action other tan removing cam cover and take lots of photos HTH mower man

[Guest ethanicus]

I had the same problem, it's just where condensation builds up on a un used engine. Once it been run up to temp and had a bit of a work out a few times it will clear. If you disconnect the oil breather you will see the steam vapour. If you can, don't leave the engine idling at the same speed for to long on a new engine. My zetec doesn't really perform untill the oil temp is 90-100 degrees.

 

Hope that's helps a bit.

[Guest Jomeo69]

Morning all .

 

Right ive just had the Cam cover off.

HMM interesting is all i can say.

For a start there is oil getting round the cam and in all the valleys around them.

On the rusty lobes there are also some small droplets of water which have formed.

 

To answer the first question regarding the baffle in the cam cover. Nothing (Although as you can see there is one on the inlet side). There is nothing there and i dont remember there ever being anything there. Ive also checked this with my mates focus which has no such baffle.

 

 

Ok so after a bit of a look around. The rust is confined to 2 cylinders. The two inlet valves on cly 1 (Top row on left hand side of the photo) and two exhaust valves on cyl 4.

 

 

Cyl 1 Inlet.

 

 

 

Cyl 4 Exhaust

 

 

 

Now this i think is a bit odd. For the rust to be on just these two cylinders. Also if you look at the pics of cyl 4 you can see that the rust is just surrounding the top of the lobes and isnt present on the underside of the lobe. Also there is no rust or any sign of rust on the pedestal underneath the cam lobe (its not particularly clear in the above photo), which leads me to think that the rust may have set in after the engine has been stopped. if this is the case how would i stop this from happening again as i can imagine if i was to start the engine now the rust would mince the pedestal.

 

 

The rust itself isnt particularly tough. It can be scratched off with a bit of highly technical fingernail action but im guessing it should be taken off in a bit more of a thorough manner than this.

So what do people think could be happening here?? and how would i go about stopping it in future?

Just before i put the cam cover back on i put some oil on the affected areas to stop it in for the minute, and cleaned up all the mating surfaces.

Any thoughts or comments are greatly appreciated as always.

[Guest mower man]

Some things not right it seems as if 1lobe is doing nothing unless the engine has not been run for some time how long has it been in store?.By pedestal ,do you mean the cam followers? I think you realy ought to get in touch with the supplier I have in my time put some real dogs together to get them through cheapy auctions but would not be happy running the engine in that state mower man

[Guest Jomeo69]

The supplier was GBS or Robin Hood. But that was 4 years ago and i cant see them doing anything about it now.

Yea sorry cam followers.

It hasnt been used for any real period of time due to it not being tuned yet. Probably bout half hour in total.

joe

[Longboarder]

I'm very surprised at the pics. Sorry for my memory placing the baffle on the wrong side of the cover. I haven't seen a zetec engine for months.

Its a blacktop engine so solid followers. Each of the followers should be sitting in a pool of oil. The rusted ones are in a very strange pattern. 1&2 inlet and 15&16 exhaust. I wonder if they are at the end of the oilways from the oil supply point of view and this was a low oil pressure/poor oil supply problem. You said you have run the engine. For long and when did you last run it? Did you note if oil pressure was good? I remember that my blacktop oil pump was not self priming and had to be primed by hand. Might be interesting to look at the condition of the bearing surface of the cam carriers relevant to the rusted lobes.

Discuss with the engine supplier. Don't even turn the engine over at the moment.

 

Nigel

[Guest Jomeo69]

No the engine isnt moving untill ive figured this one out.

I know on the zetec engine there are two senders in the inlet side of the block. is the one with the white plastic case a oil pressure sender and the one with a wire comming from it near the top of the engine a engine oil temp sender??

That will be the next thing, getting an oil pressure gauge hooked up, but surely i can only see if it has decent pressure if the engine is turning over. so i will at sum point need to get rid of the rust.

The engine was last run on about friday last week, i think as i was trying to get the ecu fan control to the relay sorted. so wasnt run for very long. max 10 minutes i think.

joe

[Guest mower man]

I think some of the answers are ,4years storage, condensation from short run times.Did you turn the engine over to get oil press before starting ?,this normal procedure with any thing that has not been run for some time ,idealy running until normal operating temp is achieved this gets rid of the condensation and ensures all parts are lubed correctly . If when wanting my Rh out of the garage but not using it it's pushed out or more commonly runup to temp .I hope you don't think I'm trying to be clever cos I'm not but am trying to give you the benefit of along time on the tools with extensive engine build experience.My take on your prob would be to remove the cams and clean/ polish the affected lobes to check for damage and procede either running them or replacing them . Sorry to give you more probs but if that engine is run for any length of time as is damage to cams and followers and other parts will result. Best wishes mower man [mick]

[johnlrichardson]

If the rust rubs off with a finger nail and has no pitting on the cam or followers, Id be inclined to clean it up and give it a try, I would inform GBSC of the situation But I don't think they can be held responsible as its four years old

 

HTH jon

[megadodo]

That's more than condensation, that's had water drip onto it when the cam cover was off! I'm sure someone else has had that problem on an engine from GBS when tricky dicky was in charge? I don't think you could expect the current encumbants to cover that under warranty in all honesty unless you could show that in all the time you have had the engine it has been stored in the optimum conditions. "Reasonable timescales" under the sale of goods act may be a bit pushed even for a kit car build! I would talk to them, discuss the situation and see if they have any camshafts availble at a reasonalbe rate 'cos that shaft will need to b re-ground before it can be used in an engine!

[johnlrichardson]

If the cam and followers are cleaned up and the engine used, the very worst that can happen is the cam will wear, which will stop the valve opening as much as they should, and it will go onto 3 cylinders and a knock may occur.

I would give it a try, other wise replacing the cams and followers is not a 5 min job, plus the cost.

 

jon