New Iva Fog Light Requirements

[PaulF2B]

Hi,

Has everyone seen the new V9 of the IVA Inspection Manual (M1) Dated 17/06/2013?

Link for download: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/iva-manual-for-vehicle-category-m1

 

They have added a new hoop we have to jump through regarding the rear fog light interlocking with the lights / ignition. It states:

 

 

Note 4: Either of the following applies:

1) The rear fog lamp(s) may continue to operate until the position lamps are switched off, and the rear fog lamp(s) must then remain off until deliberately switched on again or,

2) An audible warning, additional to the mandatory tell-tale light, must be activated if the ignition is switched off or the ignition key is withdrawn and the driver's door is opened, whether the lamps in (RS4) are on or off, whilst the rear fog lamp switch is in the "on" position.

 

This looks like we either need to come up with a buzzer circuit or use a latching / clearing relay from the light circuit.

 

I have also seen there is a company called Cartek who have a module to provide this functionality on Ebay for around £36 with shipping.

 

I could not see this info' in the forum so thought it will be useful to anyone coming up towards their IVA.

 

Best regards

Paul

[brumster]

Discussed recently. Other option is juse a switch from something modern that automatically turns off the fog light when the lights are turned off (dial-type switch with a "pull" for the fog light - many make it impossible to turn it off without pushing the button back in, or it latches back in automatically).

[philshelton]

Just how are they going to test that the buzzer works when the door is open???

[nigelt]

Just how are they going to test that the buzzer works when the door is open???

 

Probably in the same way, as if you'd left the sunroof open!

[knights_templar]

1) The rear fog lamp(s) may continue to operate until the position lamps are switched off, and the rear fog lamp(s) must then remain off until deliberately switched on again or,

 

the important word is MAY, it does not have to.

[sj-bradley]

I may be picky, but this could be read as "May (continue to operate and MUST remain off ...) OR ( have an audible warning)"

 

So the word "may" means either option 1 OR option 2. One or the other.

 

Obviously the "open door" option would be difficult to implement (maybe a pressure switch under the seat ?) So that leaves the first option which then has the "Must" word, so needs some electrickery to make the switch work that way.

 

This is vague wording at best.

 

Has this been satisfactorily resolved yet?

 

Simon.

[megadodo]

I'm sure a latching relay is the way to solve this one. I.e. ignition off and the relay unlatches. I'll do some research and see if I can find some suitable.

[sj-bradley]

That won't work as you would want it to.

 

Think of this: You turn on your headlights and then enter fog so you then turn on your fog lights - which latch on.

Later you leave the fog (at night) and want to turn off the fog lights, but you can't as they are latched on and you need

to turn OFF your headlights to unlatch them.

 

Not something you want to do at night, so how do you turn off the fog lights?

 

What is needed is a momentary switch which toggles the output from off to on etc, but only when headlights are on AND must reset to off when either headlights or ignition is turned off.

 

I have seen circuits which would do this, but I will only chase this if the note in the IVA regulations are clarified and become mandatory. Otherwise I would just waste time designing this.

 

Simon.

[PaulF2B]

Thanks for all your ideas,

This was flagged up to me by a colleague who is currently taking his MNR through the test at Beverley IVA station and was told a regular fog lamp switch fed from the switched lighting circuit was not sufficient.

The principle is to stop people leaving on their rear fogs whenever they put on their lights, which I think is fair enough, you often see people with fog lights still on the day after the fog has gone!

 

I think with Option 1 a latching relay will do the trick that is cleared by either switching off the lights or ignition. This will however need a push button (non latching) switch in the dash that must toggle the fog lights on/ off to get around the issue Simon mentions above.

Also Brumsters option of a modern switch unit that gives the mechanical interlocking will do the trick too.

 

Option 2 will allow a on/off style switch to be used but will require a bit more ingenuity due to the lack of doors, maybe if you have an alarm it could be fed from that, or maybe some appropriate diodes and a permanent 12V feed may be able to drive the buzzer when the switch is left on I will need to get out the multimeter to see if this would be feasible, I guess a double pole fog switch could be used, but most dash switches are only single pole.

 

Just another fun problem to solve!

Paul

Edited September 20, 2013 by PaulF 2B

[Nigel Rogers]

Hi All,

 

This is an issue I will have to revisit as fog lights was one of my fail points at my IVA test a few days before they revised the rule. I sorted the lights out to the old rule and then read the revision

 

I found this solution on the "locostbuilders" site http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=183457.

Edited September 21, 2013 by ECAM

[sj-bradley]

That is NOT a satisfactory solution as others have pointed out following that simple circuit.

 

It has a major problem in that you can't turn the fog lights off without turning off the headlights. That is something you do not want to do during a night time drive through fog which then clears.

 

Simon.

[Guest snowy2]

it could be achieved by a separate momentary switch which is normally closed.....but then you have two momentary switches one for on one for off.

[Jamiep]

Could this not be resolved with the standard lucas light switch? Have side light on permanently as DRL have position 1 as dipped beam and position 2 as rear fog with amber warning light on dash, that way you have to turn off fog to turn off lights and can turn on and off at will. I may be missing something though.

[Guest busby]

Hi gbs put my zero through the iva 2 weeks ago and simon had to do modify the fog light wireing,I do not know what the modification was,but my zero passed the iva,ask gbs to advise on the modification.

Hope this helps

[sj-bradley]

This looks like the requirement is now mandatory.

 

I think I will design a little box that will do the job. Once I get this right, I will post on here. Obviously, I will keep it as cheap as possible.

 

Simon.