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"safe" Road Design


brumster

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Thought I would canvas opinion because I'm just dumbfounded by some recent approaches with regards to road safety near us.

 

The road planners seem to have a belief that BLOCKING the view of drivers to traffic on junctions is a good thing. I think I understand their (faultered) thinking but can't say I agree with it. It seems to be popular at roundabouts - on an approaching lane, build up either a mound of earth or a physical fence that blocks the approach vehicles view of traffic on the roundabout. I suspect their reasoning is that it forces you to slow down and practically stop at the very end, where you are finally revealed the state of the traffic on the roundabout and whether it is safe to join or not.

 

Problem as I see it is people don't work like that. All I see are skid marks at the approaches to these roundabouts, people approaching too fast in an impatient manner and discovering at the last second that there's a car coming round. How does reducing visibility in any way contribute to road safety?

 

You'll always have idiots on the road. If they were approaching too fast and having accidents on roundabouts when the visibility was good, I don't think for one minute that taking that away from them will make things any better. For me, I just find it frustrating that I can no longer anticipate my approach to a roundabout and adjust my speed accordingly so I can merge in.

 

Only a few examples near us at the moment in Warwickshire - just wondering if this is a new approach that's common elsewhere in the UK?

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yep, lots of it in derbyshire. Frighteningly dangerous!

 

I was approaching a roundabout at a speed where i can peek around the barrier and stop if needs be. Sure enough something was coming. What i hadn't noticed was the car i'd just overtaken in the inside lane had changed lanes behind me. Fortunately i was able to lift off the brakes and roll into the roundabout, otherwise i'd have been stuffed!

 

I really hate the a61/a38 southbound junction - it's such a sharp angle that you have to stop and peer around each time. Really frustrating.

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I sometimes wonder if road designers ever drive cars. One roundabout problem stems from planners making the joining road enter at a nice acute angle. Looks right on the plan and should smooth flow but in practice it results in joining drivers having to look so far to the right that they loose the car in front of them from their extreme left peripheral vision. So if you are second in line, see the car in front 'go', you look right, loose the car in front, see a gap in the traffic you reckon is OK, and accelerate into the back of the car in front who changed his mind and stopped. We have a roundabout in Plymouth where there are low speed shunts like this almost daily. Sight barriers made no difference. Ended up with traffic lights. Could have been solved by making it a more right angle entry to the roundabout.

Identify the problem first. Then solve that problem. Dirty fixes never work in the long run.

 

Nigel

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brumster.......I do agree with you and it's a good topic worth bringing up. I do try and look at both sides.....so just to stir things up a little......

 

To me it begs the question "why would they spend the money and put them up if it doesn't help reduce accidents?". It's not like speed cameras which are a money making scam so there must be some prooven reason for doing? and as it's not to make money so it must be for another benifit...(reduce accidents)

 

They have gone up around derbyshire and now I am forced to slow down at roundabouts which I used to approach at speed and if nothing was coming continue onto them at speed. That's fine for me, but what if it was a boy racer in his crap car in the wet? could he handle the roundabout at speed? Or the knobhead who pulls out just in front of you because he thinks he can make the gap and miss-judges it and side-swipes your car at a great speed because he didn't slow down?

 

I suppose there is the initial period of "skid marks" as people get used to their regular roundabouts now having these blocks.

 

I'd be interested to know if there has been a study or something done to proove that they reduce accidents because I cant see that the planners are going to spend the money otherwise?

 

Whilst it is controversial thinking, I can see why it's been done;

it's a fact that it is always going to be safer to approach a roundabout or junction at a slow speed than fast.

 

so how do you get people to slow down?

those raised lines in the road on the approach to a roundabout dont work and people jump traffic lights all the time.....so what next? block people's vision so they have to slow down to check it's safe before entering the roundabout or leaving the junction....people assess risks (which is why people jump red lights because they think its safe to do so because nothing is coming the other way) so if they can't see what's coming, then that is a high risk and so they are forced to slow down.

 

They now slow me down which does annoy me....but on the other hand, if they stop some idiot who can't handle their car from flying over a roundabout and into the side of my car (or friend / family's car) then they can't be that bad can they?

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I'd be interested in seeing some feedback on why they have targetted particular roundabouts. Is there some evidence that they are accident blackspots due to speed or lack of driver skill? I don't know; the roundabouts I'm thinking of certainly don't seem to have a reputation in the local area so I wouldn't have thought so, but who knows.

 

I know exactly what you're saying though.

 

On the one roundabout, here's the summary of how it's changed... I am now more concerned when I am *on* the roundabout, going in front of the now-blocked junction, that a car will come careering out of it unable to stop in time and go straight into me. And it has happened once where I've been coming round and a car has had to hang the achors on and straddled the give way line in order to stop in time.

 

Blocking people's vision to improve road safety just sounds like a complete backward step to me; like there should be a simple basic rule that any reduction of visibility is a bad thing. All other things equal, a reduction in speed is always going to be safer than faster - we've all bought into that one right? So there should be a similar approach that says any way we can make drivers anticipate problems is a good thing. Driving round blind bends isn't a good thing in any other situation - I don't think it should be here either.

 

I do fully understand your reasoning - it's what I'd assumed is the thought process by the road planners too. Bunch of numpties :).

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We are all guilty of driving at a speed or leaving a stopping distance that each individual considers " low risk" I know I'm much more aware & careful in Florin as it's no more than a motorised egg-shell; Do I have the same awareness/care when driving the Jeep? Hopefully yes but I suspect in truth its NO. As cars have developed we have probably upped our risk thresh- hold to suit, years ago I was fortunate to drive a 1900 steam car on the London/Brighton run & at 25 mph with next to no brakes & tiller steering I had found my limit; great planning went into slowing down because of lack of modern aids. We would all hate to run over a cat, but how many corners do you drive round at speeds that would be impossible to miss the poor moggie?

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