The End Of Vw Or Just A Good Time For Deals?

[agent_zed]

sure you've seen the diesel scandal. What do you reckon...

 

Is this the beginning of the end for VW? or just a blip they can get out of?

[Guest peter2b2002]

swmbo has a merc when she picked it up I asked about the other filler cap will ad blue next it, the mechanic said no don't touch it you don't need to do anything with it, now she is wondering if that's next one to hit the head lines

peter2b

[brumster]

I suspect most of us true petrol-heads (or dervheads) don't give two hoots about it, but obviously the majority of the general public will latch onto anything in the press and get behind it without really understanding what the greater issues are.

 

I've not seen figures of just exactly how far out the US car was found to be, but I hear x10 bandied about, presumably on NOx emmissions. Euro6 is hard on diesels, though - NOx and HC more than chopped in half. From chatting with people in the industry, and seeing what engines Euro6 killed off from the mainstream cars available, I am frankly unsurprised that this was going on. I too would suspect other manufacturers are doing similar things, and while I appreciate that's fraud/illegal, I really couldn't give two hoots about it. Last I heard/read, car emissions were the least of our problems when considered with industrial waste output, power plant risks, etc.

 

I doubt it's the end for VW, particular as other companies are found out too, but it will be a kick-up for the industry and I bet the regulations/tests get reworked as a result.

[tractor]

the air coming out of the exhaust on a euro 6 is supposed to be cleaner than the air going in funny still smells of burnt diesel

mind you that's all dependant on the test criteria air sample taken from Beijing inner ring road at rush hour whilst foggy and hey presto

Edited September 26, 2015 by tractor

[Guest mower man]

Question: Is this similar to using a different engine map to get through IVA then replacing that with a full power map after you have passed? If so I imagine there are a lot of kit owners/companies guilty too

Is this what it is ? a remap ? . There is so much vague info in the media i.e. falsified mpg figs ,incorrect software , falsiefied emmision figures etc what is actually wrong mick

[Guest 2b cruising]

I don't think it works like that on annual tests. Is our mot or the German tuv.

A car would not know it was on test by just being on idle.

In days past when they had to rev for so long then idle so long and that repeated a few times would have been detectable, but not just by idling.

My own mind tells me it was just on type approval examinations when everything is done under lab conditions.

The setting up for emissions test is different and very precise. That would be detectable by on board ecu's etc.

Once type approval is gained, the authorities know what the standard for the car is. ie, the greater the cc, the higher the allowed readings but higher road tax in this country.

I don't think we will be finding out the whole truth in the matter just yet.

I've not been stuck to the telly for a couple of weeks as looking after an old friend.

[brumster]

Yep, as above, since the conditions are controlled it was relatively easy to write the software to detect when the test was being conducted, and alter the map accordingly.

 

From here :

 

Eventually they found software called “the switch” which tracks the position of the steering wheel, vehicle speed, how long the engine is on, and air pressure to determine if it is being subjected to an emissions exam.

 

I would be suspecting they were leaning out the engines and/or changing the injection timing to reduce the emissions at the expense of throttle response, power and probably longevity too (running engines lean for extended periods is not a good idea - well, certainly for petrols, I'm not to savvy with diesels but I suspect that's the case?)...

[Guest mower man]

So they remap to remove this 'naughty prob ' and fail all international tests by how much ? don't get me wrong I am no tree hugging green but how much does it matter when you see 3rd world country vehicles shoving bucket fulls out and london air thick enough to chew because of old taxi's etc yours confused mick

[Tazzzzman1]

Being a little in the know on this issue, it is as Rob States. Engine EcU detects the test and switches mapping. So far affects the whole VW group, Audi, Seat, Scoda, Porsche. Highly likely other manufacturers have done similar especially the German marques as they know each other's cars inside out....

The major issue for the car industry and Jo public is if they also break euro legislation. Most EU countries base taxes on emissions. So if they do fail euro tests expect governments to step in to demand lost revenues..... The implications are enormous.

My company are very nervous as we are now expecting a big hit on orders over coming months as public hold back on new purchases....

VW will be safe from going under as German government have already stated they would step in if required....

This is just the thin edge of the wedge as it raises the question what else have they cheated on?

[kevin the chicken]

If you were a major car manufacturer and your rivals were bragging about a car that had better emissions figures than yours wouldn't you get hold of one of theirs and tear it to bits to see how they had done it? Of course that would have to include having a good look at the software. I bet all of the major names will guilty of this practise to some degree or other.

[Bob Tucker]

Just followed a 14 reg diesel discovery......nearly died from fumes/smoke/assorted carp going up hill.

 

It wont be MOT'd for another 2 years.....thats loadsa tihs in air in the meantime.

& the hypocritical Yanks are worried about a little bit of Nox after building gas guzzlers for year!!!

 

All the same, as an ex auditor I detest fraud......which this seems to be....

[sj-bradley]

If the software is written on the microprocessors, it is possible that they CAN'T reverse engineer this.

 

The reason is that PIC micros for example can be told to read protect the software written to it so if you try to read it back, you only get zeros and not the true code.

 

I suspect that other processors will have the same sort of protection built in for this very reason.

 

The software could detect things like lack of motion of steering wheel, wheels not turning when revving engine or the driven wheels turning (on rolling road) but not the rears (easy through ABS sensors). So it is easy to detect when the car is being tested.

 

As it stands at present, our air quality is TONS better than China's. Look at their capital for example where they quote "fog" all the time. It's really smog and they haven't clamped down on their vehicles even though they do have laws regarding this already.

 

You only have to look back in history at the London smogs and the clean air act to see how things have improved. Admitted that now there are far more cars on the road, but they are also cleaner than the older models.

 

Simon.

[brumster]

I seriously doubt manufacturers would hard-set their ECUs and not make them "update-able" in the field. Sure, you'll need some dealer-only system as it'll be proprietary CAN, but I doubt they'd back themselves into a corner by making them hard-set from the factory. Still an expensive process to recall them all and update, of course!

 

edit: Sorry, I think I misunderstood you there, I see what you're saying now

Edited September 26, 2015 by brumster

[sj-bradley]

I think you did misunderstand.

 

By making the processors unreadable does not mean that new software is prevented from being written to it. The PICs can be "unreadable" but you can still erase and reprogram them.

 

The same may be true with FPGAs or any other micro processor. Manufacturers are so big now that they could even get dedicated chips made for them from the processor manufacturers too.

 

Simon.

[Guest 2b cruising]

VERY STRANGE THIS.

MAN a part of the same Audi VW group have been bragging for years that their engines pass emissions tests easily without an ad-blue system requirement. .?????????????.

Retired 6 years ago so not sure about euro 6 requirements, or if they use ad-blue yet.