Brake Upgrade Options & Ideas

[brumster]

BRUM - Any way of identifying the duff slave cylinders from the good?

 

I don't believe so, short of maybe disassembling them and checking measurements with a micrometer :-S

 

I saw some suggestions that the castings aren't quite so well defined but I can't vouch for whether that's true or not.

 

I think just buy from a reputable source; £15 eBay jobbies from China are almost definitely not genuine . I'd probably only use them for a clutch anyway; I'd buy an AP if it were my money. Or just stick with the manufacturer one, to be honest, but that's not possible with a balance bar/pedal box like you have

[Grim]

Rear are smaller 1.6 drums with slave cylinder leaking and very, very dirty yet the spring and shoes look very good (after cleaning).

 

I suspect the shoes will still have residual fluid absorbed in them. I don't think they would be very effective.

[cb750]

I always change the cylinders on both sides of the car if one is leaking to bring them both up to the same service life. I also change the shoes as they have probably been contaminated. Good idea to check that the auto adjust mechanism is working properly as that caused a slightly low reading at mot time. Check the front caliper pistons are working as they should as rust etc can cause poor performance.

[Dean Roberts]

I normally use a brake cleaner and small wire brush to clean up brakes, but somebody at work suggested cleaning the drums with boiling water to remove the residue.

He said just get a bucket of boiling water and place the drums in and the brake dust will evaporate.

 

Is this true or just another fairy tale?

[cb750]

I just do what you do. It gets rid of any residual fluid mist that may be trapped in the rough casting

[Guest 2b cruising]

If your shoes are glazed, and are hard material anyway, you will find no matter how much you rough them up, the glaze will just return after a few applications.

Change them for manufacturers stands fitting shoes.

Make sure they are fully adjusted on refit by winding out the cylinder adjusters as far as possible. Put both sides drums back on, stamp hard on the pedal a good few times to centralise shoes then remove the drums and readjust. Repeat operation two or three times. Do not push pedal with any drums off. Clean off any wear lip from the outer edge of drums with a small angry grinder, making sure you don't touch the braking serface with it.

Lightly rough up your drum working faces with a sander wheel.

Use brake cleaning spirit or acetone to clean parts.

Boiling was a method of getting oil from contaminated shoes and drums. Don't do this. Replace shoes, sand down drums after cleaning with brake fluid.

This will take up any play that helps give you a low reading on foot and hand brake.

The old school rule on brakes is, "whatever you do to one side, you must do to the other" is a good working rule.

You should easily be able to fully tighten your wheel nuts with handbrake applied and definately not be able to push your car.

If all your work does not improve your braking force you will have to upgrade.

Use standard well respected named parts, ie, ferroelectric, mintex etc and for your style of braking you don't need hard material.

 

boring old git ain't I.

Edited June 15, 2016 by 2b cruising

[Guest david_l_perry]

Have a read of this Dino:- I did a lot of the above...upgrade was always on the cards if I didnt get toe grips with it.

 

It also has the pedal assembly link on the last page detailed

 

http://www.rhocar.org/index.php?showtopic=42385&hl=%20brake%20%20pads&page=3

 

I stripped and cleaned the front pads and discs, and they are mintex pads from memory - didnt make much difference.

 

The thing was, I had changed from sierra brake pedal with servo assisted, to twin cylinder, bias bar and non servo assisted but longer pedal stroke....impossible to make a direct comparison as every part was different....

 

At the MOT's, the fronts always passed easily, but the rear was always close to the bone - handbrake was never great.

 

Having said that, and just thinking about it now...., all previous MOT's where with the original smaller wheels. The new bigger wheels / tyres would probably make a previous close call on the MOT a fail on the larger wheels ??

[Guest 2b cruising]

Good thinking but as for next mot, it would depend on outer diameter of wheel plus tyre before you can compare.

If you fitted new lower profile tyres on the larger wheels the difference might not be any greater.

[Guest david_l_perry]

Yep, larger wheels and similar tyre profile depth so overall rolling radius increased . The reason was to increase the rolling radius to suit the high torque of the Jag and give the car a little bit more clearance and help with longer legs for cruising. It worked on all counts and had no impact on ride cumfort - built for cruise comfort. It will have effected braking effert now I think more about that. Howevore, that thread I linked tonwas before the wheel change.

[Guest 2b cruising]

It costs very little to have a brake roller test to put your mind at rest.

Or to frighten you if you have more work to do.

Dino, you've got all the parts you could possibly need for a full set of 2 lt brakes.

You know they are balanced back to front.

A fully committed weekend work could see the full job completed. (twice)

[Dean Roberts]

Well spent the weekend completely removing the old drums, cleaning and replacing everything from brake lines, fluid, cylinders, drums, shoes, springs.

Flushed and bleed the brakes and used the same brake fluid formula provided by Mr Perry... (thank you sir)

 

Thought I would update the paintwork on the new drums to match the lovely red exterior of the car.

 

 

Lots of swear words, rounded or snapped bolts and mashed fingers from the stupid (swear, swear, swear) handbrake cable.

On just the first drum, the second drum was a completely different picture.....

 

Took a crowbar, lump hammer and lots of brute force and determination to remove the drum.

*bleep* thing took about and hour to get off before stripping down and rebuilding the whole lot.

I also noticed that this drum looks like the red paint had been boiled and gone a strange varnished look (overheated maybe???

 

I had to replace the brake lines, as they had completed corroded onto the cylinders (including the leaking one.

 

 

 

 

A fun packed weekend, but eventually the car seems intact and looks to stop very well.

 

 

 

Proof in the pudding will be going to visit my friendly MOT man around the corner and having a few freebies on the rollers to make sure its passable.

 

The only issue outstanding is the handbrake....

It may need adjusting, as I was able to (with a lot of effort from 2 people) push the car after it was pulled up to 3 clicks....

Then again, the brakes will still need bedding in and the cable was only going up 1 click until I pumping the brakes a couple of time and testing the efficiency.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Dino

[Dean Roberts]

It didn't help being on call-out and work contacting me Saturday and Sunday to fix some hardware issues.

 

Oh well, just need to get it thru the MOT and then start saving for maybe a few upgrades suggested by you guys earlier in the post over the darker months...

[Guest 2b cruising]

Good luck with the mot old bean.If you are lucky enough to be the one in the car when brakes are tested, put your foot hard on the brake pedal when you pull up the handbrake. Then take your foot back off the brake before he turns the rollers.

Brakes don't have to lock up but must pull enough effort.

With our cars they can easily lock up anyway because of lack of weight. That would be an automatic pass. Unless the have a dummy load simulator. That would be a rare thing though.

[Guest david_l_perry]

Looking good Dino. Rear brakes lines are the only part that had not been replaced as part of the engine swap - that would all explain the lack of rear brakes at the MOT at least !

[Longboarder]

Letting the automatic handbrake adjuster do the adjusting is important. When fitting rear brakes it's important to slacken off the handbrake cable and fully slacken the automatic shoe adjusters. (Apart from any other considerations this allows easy fitting of the brake drum.) Bolt up and fit the wheel. Do not operate the handbrake. Leave it in the released position. Now operate the foot pedal several times. (This is to allow the automatic shoe adjusters to take up the adjustment and space the shoes to be in light contact with the drums. Only then do your start adjusting the handbrake cable so that the slack is taken up and the handbrake fully applies in four clicks or less. Then drive a few miles to bed everything in. You may need to readjust the handbrake cable adjuster a touch after a drive.

The thing you are trying to avoid is using the cable adjuster and thus the handbrake lever as primary positioner of the shoes. That's the job of the auto adjuster ratchet on the shoe cross spacer inside the drum.

 

Nigel