Rear Drum Conversion Discussion.

[Guest Jomeo69]

Afternoon all.

 

So a few of my petrol headed mates have been quizzing me quite hard recently about my distinct lack of appearance at any track days or hill climbs.

One clear reason is financial and another i want to bed the car in a bit before hitting it hard at a track. Both of these reasons / excuses they shrugged off, because they are fun like that.

There are 2 more. One being the spring weights which is another discussion, the other is my rear brakes.

My car has drums on the back.

I am very hesitant to run drums on a track. I know these cars can be over braked if disks are used on the rear without a reducing valve. Id really like some advice really as to whether its worth doing a rear disk conversion first (big job and the missus would shoot me) or im ok to hammer them on a track. Obviously servicing and all that jazz will help first but im kind of looking for info outside the obvious if that makes sense.

 

Many Thanks as always

[tractor]

Drums will be fine I locked up all four wheels at 70mph that was a scary moment and I don't have a servo

Edited March 16, 2017 by tractor

[Guest Jomeo69]

Ah maybe i should have added that.

I do have a servo connected as well.

Do like the feel of them at the moment and have had at least the front two lock up while doing some spirited driving

[Guest lotusPaul]

Disk brakes will be a better option as they are more consistant due to heat transfer.

 

In my opinion tho, why not keep as is and learn how to get the best out of your car and yourself first. Im not sure who first coined the phrase ' improving car performance is started by improving the nut behind the wheel'

 

A good set of grippy rubber compound tyres will gain you more performance than a brake upgrade and probably cost less. Also a well sorted and setup suspension system will allow you further gains/reductions in lap times. I must say and a credit to you too, improving brakes seems to be last on the list most times. Im glad your thinking of braking before engine upgrades.

 

You can get performance drums and shoes for these aplications tho, just havent looked at drums for a while. If you do want to change over to disks then look at a complete rear axel from a donar car. You will have all the bits you need then.

[Snapperpaul]

Don't fully agree with lotus Paul

The big issue is brake balance and discs on the rear will make your car very rear end twitchy unless you have a bias pedal box

The drum brakes were designed for a much heavier car so you have a braking advantage over a standard car.

Me, I would do a track day and find out if your happy first, you may be surprised

[Bob Tucker]

I do a fair few track days.

Brands is 15 minutes away, Lydden is 45 minutes,& I visit both every year.

I have no servo, standard calipers, vented disks and Mintex 1144 pads on the front.

And standard drums on the rear.

I use the Mintex pads because I got brake fade with the "local motor factors" pads.

I use Toyo 888s on track, & can still lock up the fronts.

Dunno about the rears, I tend to be looking forward whenever the fronts lock.

But that setup works very well, so I agree completely with Paul

Try it out first, then if you are unhappy, look at changing things.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Bob Tucker

[Longboarder]

I have exactly the same brakes and tyres as Bob. The upgrades that made a difference, in order were tyres, springs, LSD, shocks, mintex pads on the front. Last and least of all quick rack.

Difficult to rate engine. Probably somewhere in the middle for performance boost but at the top in scariness or maybe I just got old.

 

Nigel

[Bob Tucker]

Most trackdays offer an instructor ridealong plus

theres usually a session allocated to novices, so theres no

likelihood of being pressured to drive beyond your

own comfort zone.

But if tracks are outside your comfort zone, just say no.....

[Snapperpaul]

If you can do a Karting session you can do a track day.

The key thing is to not get drawn in to going beyond your capabilities

Most tracks today have plenty of runoff areas

You can insure your car for track days it's expensive

If you don't insure your car then don't go to mad

[Mrbarry]

The biggest problem on track days is other people. If some fool hit you it's hard luck. I have done around 300 and it's the biggest buzz you can get. I have done a small amount of instruction and most people under drive their cars, they can do so much more than you give them credit. But some people do over drive them because they think they are a hero, I've seen some nasty events. I haven't done a track day in my zero yet and I'm excited to do so. I'm going to teach my mrs to drive on track too, she's looking forward to it.

 

I would recommend sprinting if you don't want to be panel to panel with others, it's one car at a time and you have no chance if anyone hitting you. Some track days offer beginner, intermediate and experienced sessions split across the day. Some offer beginner days. Have a look and see what you fancy. Don't be scared off tho it's such great fun. If you can get a friend with experience to go with you for a day that's a good idea too, exactly how I got into it all.

 

If you like a quiet track and don't mind cold weather early testing days are great too. You often get the track exclusively and you can time your laps because it's a testing day (timing on a track day is not permitted and will see you sent home with a red card and a life time ban from most tracks) Most people on testing days do 4-5 laps and go home. I take advantage of them for quiet tracks at cut price

Confidence is what you need. Over confidence does no favours tho.

[Guest lotusPaul]

I stand by what i said first. Disks will be better in long term and if you get a complete rear axle then you will get all the bits required at a very reasonable cost.

 

As to what is ok on a track day, well your drums will be ok. All id add to that is ok unless you drive like a lunatic and try to brake like an F1 car. Make sure they are in good order first which means strip it off and check condition of drums,shoes, slaves and mechanism.Replace and rebuild using fresh fluid. Bleed ALL brake system.If you drive to your chossen trackday then get a fresh bottle of fluid in case you boil it.

 

At same time you would be wise to check front discs n pads. You could even put in a set of new standard pads as its cheap insurance.

 

Not the be all and end all but what im saying is before ANY track time make sure your 100% happy with the brakes. And when using new ensure they're bedded it.

 

Track time is very enjoyable providing you take a sensible approach. Learn your own limits and the cars limits. Seldom the same.

 

Paul

[Mrbarry]

There is a company called carbotech who make pads. They are costly and dusty, but I assure you you will never feel brakes like them. Forget everything you know about brakes because these things are in a class of their own. They do a few different grades but the XP8 grade stops from cold and you won't make them fade if you try. I've a video of my car with sparks trailing down the side off the car like an angle grinder at a night race, while the disks seem to be glowing yellow but it's just the pad material. It's why they are dusty in reality.

Everyone I raced with had the same car and the first time they drove mine even gently they would lock the wheels solid and violently because they need little such little pressure. Once you calibrate your foot tho you'll never look back.

They do custom linings and will line shoes too could be an easy solution to a problem.