One thing to note there was excessive carbon on back off butterflies only cylinders 3&4, could this be something?

 

 

Firing when the inlets are still open.

Might be an idea to recheck the basics. You can check timing with a timing light. Have to bolt on a pointer close to crank pulley, find TDC with number 1 plug out, put a dot of tippex on the pulley next to the pointer and pick up off the HT leads in turn just to check they all fire and 1 & 4 do it in time with the TDC mark and 2 & 3 dont. Rev it and you can see if it advances. Also easy enough to check cam timing. TDC again and a bar fits in the cam slots.

I'm thinking that even if one of the carbs is duff it should run on two pots. Maybe a little rough!!! Just wondering if somethings slipped or theres a crossed wire in the ignition. However sooty butterflys in only one carb do seem to point to that carb. May be untrue.

 

Nigel

Edited July 10, 20179 yr by Longboarder

Can you set timing for 12-14° btdc static. And no advance.

Try to start with dry plugs, batt charged, and see how you go.

Not a big fan of easy start but try it and see what happens

 

 

Firing when the inlets are still open.

Yes possibly, thinking would the VVT cam do this? I always thought with a feed it would reset to normal runnning. I can always power up the VVT pro unit then check laptop.

Might be an idea to recheck the basics. You can check timing with a timing light. Have to bolt on a pointer close to crank pulley, find TDC with number 1 plug out, put a dot of tippex on the pulley next to the pointer and pick up off the HT leads in turn just to check they all fire and 1 & 4 do it in time with the TDC mark and 2 & 3 dont. Rev it and you can see if it advances. Also easy enough to check cam timing. TDC again and a bar fits in the cam slots.

I'm thinking that even if one of the carbs is duff it should run on two pots. Maybe a little rough!!! Just wondering if somethings slipped or theres a crossed wire in the ignition. However sooty butterflys in only one carb do seem to point to that carb. May be untrue.

 

Nigel

Sparks on all cylinders car will not start so differcult to test with timing light during cranking. But I will check tdc and cam timing.

Can you set timing for 12-14° btdc static. And no advance.

Try to start with dry plugs, batt charged, and see how you go.

Not a big fan of easy start but try it and see what happens

I have megajolt which is set for 12' during cranking, this is not connected yet. Trying to start car on edis limp home which is defaulted to 10'. Could be problem maybe zetec needs more and will explain Richy theory of inlet still open when firing so I will connect Megajolt and try again.

 

New plugs, coil pack and crank sensor fitted with second hand coil leads (I now have 2 coils and leads). It's an old battery and fine for 1.6 crossflow so I was thinking about getting another 063 with more cranking amps.

Thank you

 

Yes possibly, thinking would the VVT cam do this? I always thought with a feed it would reset to normal runnning.

Eureka! No! VVT with a 12v feed to the solenoid will run at full cam advance. That's 30deg of cam advance/60 deg on the crank. It will be an absulute b*stard to try to start it like that and will run like a dog. I ran for a while with fixed cam advance of 23deg which worked very well, (better that bang bang switching of the cam) and had been on the rolling road several times to refine fuel map, ignition and all the other variables was still very fiddly to start. Fine once hot.

If you are as your post implies running with the solenoid activated then I'm not suprised you can't start it on new carbs which are only approximately jetted.

Leave the cam solenoid disconnected, use a bit of easy start to blow the carp out of the engine and see how it goes. Leave the VVTPro disconnected for now.

 

Nigel

Thanks Nigel,

I have not plugged in the MJ or VVT pro at this stage, Trigger wheels said it would start with edis only. Will VVT be on I.e. At 30' as standard or does no power result in returning not to normal?

Going to check timing and cam position. The does not start with easy start but sounds a lot better and sounds like it is trying to start.

Ordered edis unit, the only item I have note replaced since removing the 40's dellortos. I have check all emulsion tubes, jets and idles and they are well within parameters with other suppliers for this engine. I have chart with figures, including Dan's details.

Back in 10 minutes.

No power to the cam solenoid allows it to fully retard under the influence of the internal spring in the inlet cam pulley and oil pressure. This is the position it would be in for starting when it was in a focus ST. Constant power to the solenoid fully advances it, a position it never reaches in the focus. Most advanced it gets is about 25deg.

 

Nigel

Edited July 11, 20179 yr by Longboarder

I have not got the correct timing tools (yes I know it's only flat bar) I have tried to set up on No. 1 on TDC with spark plug out. Also looking at cam cover and cams someone has already put on white marks they all align.

But I think some thing is wrong, the cams do not align with the locking bar, exhaust is OK and inlet is off see pictures below.

I have removed the VVT and tested with power probe, looks OK.

 

Tried starting with easy start definitely trying harder to start, lots more back firing through carbs. I thought with no power to VVT it should return back to starting position or have I got this wrong?

I have exceeded uploaded limits, how can I delete old uploads?

 

Nigel I will try to pm photo's.

To delete previous attachments go into your profile settings, I had 48Mb which included 498 photos which is pretty good.

 

Exhaust cam in tdc positon, look good and correct.

Inlet cam whilst in tdc postion look like cam has not returned to starting/no load position.

 

How would I fix this?

 

You are going to have to release Cambelt and reset cams the inlet cam you have to take the oil cap off the pulleys reveal the pulley bolt

Edited July 11, 20179 yr by tractor

You MUST have a engine timing kit for that engine, and if it is that far out I would have a compression tester to hand for after the timing is correct

OK. You need to get accurately to TDC for No 1. Best way to do that is to use the TDC pin which is a special tool that screws into the side of the block beside the crank ventilator take-off point. Looks like pic 1.

Next is to slacken the cam wheel bolts and as tractor says the inlet one is accessed by removing the bolt that looks like it is the correct one but is just a chamber cap in the centre of the inlet cam wheel. With it out the cam wheel bolt proper is exposed. With the engine at tdc use an adjustable spanner to turn the cams till you can tap a 5mm bar in the slots of the cams like pic 2. No need to slacken the cam belt tensioner.

Then tighten the cam wheel bolts. The 5mm bar will snap one of the lobes off the back of the cam so you must use an adjustable or big spanner (26ish mm) to hold the cam between lobes 2 & 3 while you tighten the cam wheel initially with the bar in place till its tight enough to hold the cam wheel steady. Then torque up, holding the cam with the big spanner/adjustable. I will look up the figures in a mo.

Sorry. Taken an hour to unearth the engine and get suitable pics. No cam belt on and vernier instead of VVT but the cams are standard ST. Pic 4 is just the cams at N01 TDC but shows the crude lumps between lobes 2 & 3 that you can get a spanner on to torque against. Inlet cam bolt 120NM. Exhaust cam bolt 68NM

Zetec Timing kit available from parts shops that stock laser tools. Quite commonly available.

 

Nigel

Edited July 11, 20179 yr by Longboarder