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Mot Emissions Fail


jimpoole

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My 2B has just failed it MOT on emissions. High CO2 and HC.

 

I thought I'd find out what the requirements were and went to the gov.uk website and found the 19th edition of the In-service exhaust emissions standards for road vehicles. I'm now confused!

 

The contents of this document, I find surprising...

 

Page 2:

 

The following types of vehicles will be considered as first used before 1st August 1975 - All kit cars and amateur built vehicles first used before August 1998

 

Vehicles first used before 1st August 1975 are only subject to a visual check.

 

My 2B is E registered 1988. Does this mean that my vehicle only requires a visual emissions test or is the first used date the date of SVA?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ignore the date-related plate; it's the V5 document you have to go off. In this case, you need to look at when your 2B was registered (ie. after it had the IVA). Since it's a 2B, it's almost certainly built and registered after 1998 :)

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Fun and games ain't it. I know there's been some changes in Mot rules but it mainly has to do with cars failing and not being allowed to take them away for repair as they are instantly deemed not roadworthy. I think. Sometimes people would get their car MoT'd early, it would fail but still claim to have a valid MoT for the next month. Not any more. So really now its not worth taking your car to a test station to see if it will pass or not. get it checked out. Do the repairs. Get it tested. Otherwise you are at the mercy of the MoT station for repairs.

 

Anyway as I'm in the midst of building my 2B plus from an abandoned project I watch all this with interest. I don't think its got to do with the date of registration of your car but the date of manufacture of the engine, which can also be interpreted as date of first use not date of first registration. So the 30 year old Pinto under my 2B's bonnet is not expected to meet 2018 emissions testing requirements. I hang on to the registration of the old Sierra the engine came from to prove the engine is manufactured Dec 1988. The Sierra registered Jan 1989. The registration does not declare any manufacturers CO2 emissions levels. What CO2 figure is an MoT test meant to compare it too then? Of course your 2B has high CO2 emissions, high compared to what?

Fingers crossed for when I get to IVA and MoT testing cause if they spot the dirty great big carbs on the side of the cylinder head... well you know what I mean.

 

From 1975 the emissions test was simply no visible signs of smoke. Those were the days!

 

If your 2B is an "E" plate then let me assume it was registered as a new vehicle in 1988. Even though the engine might be a lot older it will have to comply with 1988 regulations, rather than a "Q" plate which is a vehicle of indeterminate age. Seldom do enough donor parts come across to make it possible to keep the original registration of the donor vehicle. In which case the blurb on the Gov. UK website would suggest a visual check is all that is required of your vehicle to make sure no smoke is coming out the exhaust. Looks like Theresa has relaxed some emissions controls for us. Could Brexit be a good thing!!!??

 

Do I think that your MoT test station has got it wrong... quite possibly. How many of them actually keep up with the memos?

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SVA/IVA sets the emissions standards for a kitcar as those applicable to the effective date of manufacture of the engine fitted at time of testing.

You have only told us a registration date but can you confirm the sierras reg date of 1988 and that the 2B was presented as a single donor vehicle and is not a Q plate? Registration date of the donor car is only partially relevant as it establishes a 'manufactured before' date for the engine. Ford used to be obliging enough to respond with the actual manufacture date of an engine if asked (engines effective date). It is the date of engine manufacture

 

So assuming 1988 single donor car was presented for SVA/IVA it should have been assessed for emissions as 'a four wheeled vehicle effective date between 1 Aug 86 and 31 July 92'. These values are CO<=3.5%, HC<=1200ppm. These are the figures that should have been put in your V5C (often were not) and recorded in some dusty file or computer log and forever associated with your car at MoT time (regardless of you fitting a different engine at some later date)

Having said that they did get it wrong sometimes, messed it up, lost it or the figures were eaten by a dog.

 

Should be achievable with well tuned carbs, clean air filter etc. Check with the garage what standards DVLA have for your car. Neither donors nor 2Bs dates of registration are significant for emissions. It's all down to what SVA/IVA decided it should be.

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Guest garyfelton

Taken from the latest MOT test inspection manual:

 

Top of page

8.2.1.2 Gaseous emissions

You must inspect vehicles with spark ignition engines first used on or after 1 August 1975.

 

You don't need to check:

 

L category vehicles

hybrid vehicles – with electric and combustion engines

hydrogen fuel cell vehicles

two stroke engines – unless they are subject to a catalyst test

If a vehicle first used before 1 September 2002 is fitted with an engine that's older than the vehicle, you must test it to the standards applicable for the engine. The vehicle presenter must have proof of the age of the engine.

 

If a vehicle first used on or after 1 September 2002 is fitted with a different engine, you must test it to the emissions standards for the age of the vehicle.

 

If an engine has been modified in any way, it still has to meet the exhaust emission requirements according to the age of the vehicle.

 

A personal import must be tested according to its date of first use. However, if you're shown a letter from the vehicle manufacturer proving that the engine doesn't meet British emission standards you must test to the next lower emission standard. For example, a 1995 car first used in Gambia with a letter from the engine manufacturer stating the engine number and showing that the engine can't meet catalyst emission limits, then use the non-cat limits of carbon monoxide (CO) 3.5% and hydrocarbons (HC) 1,200ppm.

 

For emissions purposes only you should treat the following as first used before 1 August 1975:

 

kit cars and amateur built vehicles first used before 1 August 1998

*bleep*el rotary engined vehicles first used before 1 August 1987

Q plated vehicles

To prevent the build-up of fumes, the test should be carried out in a well-ventilated area.

 

Kit cars

 

Kit cars and amateur built vehicles first used on or after 1 August 1998 must have either Single Vehicle Approval (SVA) or Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA).

 

You must test kit cars or amateur built vehicles to the limits in the vehicle's registration document (V5c). If the V5c doesn't show any limits, you must test it to the limits based on the date the vehicle was first used.

 

HTH Gary

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Wow. So you are saying the latest MoT rules can change the category of a vehicles emissions. Mine passed SVA and was registered in 2000. There is no emission standard given in the V5C. It's been tested for 17 years to that standard.

If I presented it today for IVA it would be CO<=4.5%, HC<=1200 but if I present it for MoT it would be fast idle CO<=0.2, HC<=200, lambda 0.97 to 1.03, idle CO<=0.3. It doesn't have a lambda sensor. I sincerely doubt that it will be or is intended to be tested to 2000 standards or that there is any intention to change its emissions limits. If the new MoT regulations have done that I would be very surprised and a bit miffed!

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Well if you look here, this document was updated on the 1st February 2018: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/in-service-exhaust-emission-standards-for-road-vehicles

It states that the document is to explain the vehicle exhaust emissions check procedures testers and vehicle examiners use during MOT tests.

 

It states on page two:

 

The following vehicles will be considered as first used before 1st August 1975 - All kit and amateur built cars first used before August 1998

 

It states nothing about IVA/SVA limits or limits on V5C documents.

 

If I look at my MOT history on https://www.check-mot-service.gov.uk/ is states that the vehicle was registered 31st December 1988. Therefore, it should only require a visual check.

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This is a subject that has been buzzing around forums for a while.

This is an excerpt from the Cobra forum, he got an email from DVSA to clarify the situation (there was a lot of worried guys there with big old V8's):

 

"What we are trying to prevent here, is engines being changed for older variants thereby increasing the vehicles emissions since the time the vehicle was type approved as this is illegal on vehicles first used from 1 September 2002 under the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986.

In the case of a kit car, these are often approved with an older engine are and will therefore still tested to those ‘old engine’ standards as the engine has not been changed since its approval (SVA/IVA test).


Therefore, if a 2003 kit car was IVA tested with a 1987 engine, it will be MOT tested to the emissions standard applied at IVA.

 

Best regards

Shaun Martin | Policy Specialist (Vehicle Testing and Roadworthiness)

Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency | Berkeley House, Croydon Street, Bristol BS5 0DA "

 

 

If there is nothing on your V5C front sheet under emissions then send complaint to DVLA asking them to send you a new one with this on

 

Hope this helps clarify

Edited by tazzzzman1
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"Kit cars and amateur built vehicles first used on or after 1 August 1998 are required to obtain either Single Vehicle Approval (SVA) or Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA) and should be tested to the limits stated on the vehicles registration document (V5c). Where no limits are stated on the registration document, normal limits must be applied relative to the vehicles date of first use."

 

I don't think that the regs apply to when the donor was first used but to when the kit was first used, otherwise the above quote from the full manual (section 8 ) would be meaningless,

Edited by emptyat
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Well if you look here, this document was updated on the 1st February 2018: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/in-service-exhaust-emission-standards-for-road-vehicles

It states that the document is to explain the vehicle exhaust emissions check procedures testers and vehicle examiners use during MOT tests.

 

It states on page two:

 

The following vehicles will be considered as first used before 1st August 1975 - All kit and amateur built cars first used before August 1998

 

It states nothing about IVA/SVA limits or limits on V5C documents.

 

If I look at my MOT history on https://www.check-mot-service.gov.uk/ is states that the vehicle was registered 31st December 1988. Therefore, it should only require a visual check.

There is something not right there registered 1988 they didn`t make that kit till 2004 hence 2b/04

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All kit cars and amateur built vehicles first used before August 1998

The significance of Aug 98 is simply the introduction of SVA. Prior to that date you built a car, MoT'd it and mostly kept the donors identity and registration. Plenty of sevens of that era were described in their log books as cortina or escort or jag.

In the '3.Special Notes' on the front of my V5C it says declared manufactured 1985.

In '4.Vehicle details' it says date of first registration 02.5.2000.

In exhaust emissions it's blank.

Make of it what you will. I suspect/hope my MoT garage will test it just the same as always.

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just to add mine is listed as registered 1990 (as mine is a H plate) even though i SVA'd in 2007. It does state the 2007 alteration on the V5 as well (don't have it to hand for the wording but i know it has both). So mine has always been tested to the ~1991 standard and hopefully will remain so as that's what the government site says. But who knows. Luckily i have always gone to the same garage and they are pretty good at understanding it requires some common sense.

 

Mine failed on the handbrake last week and i shouldn't technically have taken it away but as the chap said 'well i can't physically stop you'. I took it back for re-test after 10 days and he couldn't do a retest so he checked the brakes and then stuck it on the ramp for 45mins as really what it the point of doing a full re-inspection of a car that he looked at 11 days ago.

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