Zetec engine start first time

[Guest Ophidr]

Good evening 

 

Right just tryed to start up the zetec managed to get fuel to the injectors fine and turn over it does try to fire but still nothing 

 

The exhaust on 1 and 2 is getting warm but 3 and 4 are cold 

 

We try to see if we are getting a spark on 3 so we took out the spark plug and turned it over bit my mate got a shock off the rubber part of the lead why would that be?

 

Do i need to do anything with the Map on the ecu?

[Longboarder]

Assuming you are using aftermarket ECU and wasted spark zetec double coil and you have shown some firing on 1 & 2. As 1&2 are on separate banks of the coil you have proved sparks to some extent. Check that 4 is with 1 on one bank of the coil and 3 is with 2 on the other bank. Yes you can get a jolt touching/holding an HT lead when the engine is turning over or running.

What fueling are you using? What ECU? What Map? Yes you might need to fiddle with the map, assuming it's a start-up map for a 2.0 zetec, at least to check it's set for your injectors and fuel pressure and cranking advance is only about 5 deg BTDC.

[theduck]

Just a minor correction to the above, pairing for wasted spark should be 1&4 and 2&3.  

We need more details to be able to help though as above, what ecu? where is the map from? is it written for your fuel and ignition setup?  

You are fortunate that being in the midlands area you are surrounded by active and knowledgeable members.  If you havent, do try and make it over to the monthly meet, as getting to know fellow members is the best thing you can do!  My car would never have made it one the road without them.

[Guest Ophidr]

So i have a 2.0ltr zetec running emerald k6 ECU with ATR injection with green bosch injectors the GBS have not give me there map but there is a 2.0 zetec map on the ECU 

Sorry but what do you mean about fuelling?

I have a low pressure pump from tank to swirl pot then swirl pot to high pressure pump to fuel rail them back to swirl pot then back to fuel tank 

Many thanks 

 

 

[theduck]

Ok so 465cc injectors?

im guessing that map that came with the emerald is not setup correctly for itb and/or those injectors. You need to check that in the ecu settings and will also need to make sure you have the wasted spark leads paired correctly - they could also be paired correctly but the pairs backwards on the coil pack. 

Is the ecu set to do batch fire or semi sequential fuel? If semi sequential you will need to get pairings correct again. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by theduck

[Guest Ophidr]

What do you think i should do

[richyb66]

If Emerald supplied the ECU with a map and you gave them the engine spec, there's no good reason why it shouldn't run. If the map is more generic, it might be worth calling them and asking if they can send something closer to your spec.

[Guest Ophidr]

Gbs supplied the ecu and injectors and ATR injection unit

[knights_templar]

the zetec map on the ECU should get you started, However it will not be ideal. you will need a RR session.

Have you calibrated TPS? this procedure needs to be done frequently when setting up.

Identify the master throttle, that is the one controlled by the tickover screw. most likly the rear most throttle, cylinder number 4, (forth from front)

Check TPS readout, unless you are using the Ford unit, the aftermarket ones can be iffy, to say the least, you need a smooth signal change when you operate the throttle, if it steps you have it wired wrong, or a faulty TPS

Where are your throttles set? make sure they are all closed, 1 (master) and its partner No2 are joined so can only be balanced with the air bleeds, No1 and No 3 should be at the same throttle position, No 3 is paired with 4 so same as 1 and 2

Make sure the air bleeds fully shut.

make sure 1 and 3 are just open, visually, the same amount. you may need to adjust the link between the 1&2 and the 3&4 to match 3 to 1

if it then starts you will have to fine the start of the map, I wrote a procedure for Jenvey and Plenhum, but its the same principle.

If it does not start, be very carful testing sparks, approx 25000 volts will find the easiest way to earth, if thats through the ECU, bye bye ECU trigger circuit, seen it a few times.

Zetec plugs are also very prone to enameling, so have another set ready and be prepaired to swap, plug at a time to test they are OK

Is this making sence, or am I rambling?

[Guest Ophidr]

I have a GBS lightweight flywheel does anyone know if this can be put on 180 degrees out 

[Longboarder]

Quote

As 1&2 are on separate banks of the coil you have proved sparks to some extent. Check that 4 is with 1 on one bank of the coil and 3 is with 2 on the other bank.

Quote

Just a minor correction to the above, pairing for wasted spark should be 1&4 and 2&3

Which bit are you correcting? I could/should have said check spark plug lead 4 is with spark plug lead 1 on one bank of the coil etc but my posts are too long already and I assumed the OP would read it that way.

So Ophdir check you have the spark plug leads correctly positioned in the coils. The zetec coil is actually two coils. If you look carefully at its upper surface you will see numbers for the leads, 1,2,3,4. You will note 1 & 4 are together to one side of the electrical plug/socket on the coil, and 2 & 3 are together on the opposite side. The fact that you noted exhausts 1 & 2 were warm suggests that these two cylinders were firing some but as they are not on the same coil it proves both coils were firing some but 3 & 4 exhausts didn't get hot so cylinders 3 & 4 were not fired.This led me to suggest that although you appear to have plug leads 1 & 2 correct you might have plug leads 3 & 4 on the wrong posts on the coils which would mean the fire at the wrong timing to make a bang.

You shouldn't have a zetec flywheel on wrong as the bolts are unevenly spaced and it will only fit on the crank in one orientation..

Further, after you have checked you have the plug leads on correctly I would stop worrying about sparks and look at fueling.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Longboarder

[theduck]

Sorry, misread your post as saying 1&2 should be together.

[Guest Ophidr]

Can you send me a picture of your coil pack wires that go from the GBS loom to the coil pack to make sure this is correct 

[Longboarder]

Can't do a pic. Mines ST170, omex and my own loom so nothing would match.

However pic below is zetecish coil, and how it connects. Normal is three pin plug with an ignition live supply to the centre pin (2) direct from a nice clean stable ignition live supply from the loom, not taken from the ECU. Then the ECU supplies two coil trigger wires to pins 1 and 3 on the coils which fire each of the two coils alternately.

Coil one sparks plugs 1&4 together each time it is triggered as pistons 1&4 approach TDC together. Now only one of those cylinders is going to be ready to fire. Say cylinder1 with a load of air and fuel and all compressed so that one goes bang and the spark from plug 4 is wasted as cylinder 4 is just finishing its exhaust stroke. However as the engine continues to turn a further 180 degrees piston 3 will be completing its compression stroke full of air and fuel and the ecu will trigger coil two which will spark plugs 2&3. 3 will go bang but spark 2 will be wasted on a cylinder just finishing its exhaust stroke. Another 180 degrees and the ECU triggers coil one which fires plugs 1&4 again. This time its bang for cylinder 4 and the spark in 1 is wasted. Another 180 degrees and its 2 that goes bang and 3 is wasted, everyone's had a go and we are back to the beginning.

I doubt you have a wiring error. Quick check is swap the coil to plug leads for plugs 3 & 4 at the coil end as per the arrows on my pic. Yours may not be quite the same parts but the jobs just that swap and then try to run the engine.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Longboarder

[Guest Ophidr]

When i switch leads 3 and 4 around it try to fire a lot more i think but still no start

 

Put new plugs in the after a few trys took the plugs out but they dont seem to be too wet can see fuel on the pistons