Clutch / gearbox horrific metallic rattle and crunch

[magh]

After some help please guys. After a good day at Stoneleigh yesterday had a few issues once I got home. Car drove faultlessly until I stopped just before I got home. 

There is a horrendous metallic clunk/crunching coming from what I think is the gearbox/ bell housing area. 

So when stationary and out of gear the noise happens in a constant pattern and does seem to increase with engine revs. 

 

If I then put my foot to the floor on the clutch after about half a second the noise stops completely. 

 

I can can select all gears fine and drive with no slip of the clutch. Gears 1-4 continue to make the noise extremely loudly but the strange thing as soon as I engage 5th it’s all whisper quiet and perfect. The drive to Stoneleigh was 150 miles each way almost all motorway and in 5th the whole way. 

 

Obviously i I realise it’s engine out and maybe box. I’m thinking maybe the release bearing or arm is catching something if it was a bearing in the box surely 5th would do it too??? 

 

Thanks mike. 

[magh]

Forgot to mention this is a pinto with type 9 5speed box. 

[nelmo]

Hi Mike, sorry to hear you had problems - is it just as simple as gravel or something in the bell housing?  I remember you said you don't have a dirt shield between engine and gearbox (like me), so maybe just got some crud in there?

Otherwise, that's about the limit of my knowledge 

 

[magh]

It has crossed my mind, I’m even hoping a flywheel bolt has maybe come loose and catching the fork arm. It’s just so strange neutral and 1-4 all do it yet 5th doesn’t. I tried 5th as low as 20 and silent yet 4th does it right up the speed. 

[IanS]

If it changes with 5th then it is probably internal to the gearbox, I am trying to remember how ford grafted 5th onto that box but suspect that the fork to select 5th is being hit by something and when it moves to select 5th it is clear.

Does reverse still work as this might be the the problem.

Either way it sounds like a gearbox out and remove the top cover to have a look see.

[magh]

Thought as much. Reverse still engages and works fine and when moving backwards I still get the noise. 

[brumster]

5th is in a separate aluminium casing on the back of the main box so it could explain why the noise disappears when in 5th, but it's kind of odd that just pushing the clutch down makes it go away. I wonder if pressure from the clutch is moving the input shaft just enough that whatever is graunching gets enough pressure on it for the noise to go away. I was going to say clutch release bearing but when you said it goes away in 5th that makes no sense

Inspect inside the bellhousing just for any unusual signs but I suspect it will indeed be gearbox out and pop the top cover off, should be fairly obvious to anyone who's stripped a box before. Probably a bearing gone and due to shaft movement backwards to forwards, you're running a gear against something it shouldn't be hitting :). Probably slowly wearing away part of the casing, selector or something. Don't go too far with it like that until you've figured out what it is!

Check the clutch release bearing anyway, I can't really explain why the noise would go away in 5th but fingers crossed it might just be that, they can certainly be noisy when they've gone but the noise normally relates to pedal pressure on the clutch rather than engine speed or gears...

[magh]

Thanks. It is pointing more towards layshaft bearings from looking into it unfortunately something I really hoped wasn’t the case. The clutch release bearings I’ve heard failing in the past usually whine and this doesn’t. Is it possible to drop the prop off and the box backwards and out from under the car instead of pulling the engine out then the box. Just saves me a trip to collect an engine hoist. 

 

The car car isn’t going anywhere now as it’s home in the garage so hopefully not too much damage has been done. 

[brumster]

I couldn't say on a 2B, to be honest, not something I'm au fait with. I'm sure someone else will comment. Can you get to the top cover on the gearbox at all without taking it out? If you could pop it off and get a look in there, maybe even with a borescope? If it's something really obvious it might show up. Even if it's just looking at the fluid and finding lots of sparkly bits in it

Edited May 6, 2019 by brumster

[richyb66]

You can't remove the prop from a 2B without taking out either the box or the diff. 

[IanS]

I am not clear, is the car moving when the clutch is pressed and the noise stops?

I was thinking that the noise was there when stopped and the clutch being pressed stopped the all movement in the box.

I only know the mono cars where it is engine out gearbox out.

[richyb66]

Drain the oil from the box and inspect it for bits, if there's internal damage the oil will be contaminated. If it comes out clean look at external things like the release bearing or clutch plate. 

You need to start eliminating things by doing the smallest amount of stripping down. 

[brumster]

Unless he's modified it and put a drain point in, that's going to be difficult with a type 9

[magh]

IanS, the car is stationary and neutral and the noise exists press the clutch in and it stops. 

When driving it home in gears 1-4 the noise is there, press the clutch and I think the noise was still there select neutral and coast and it went. 

Sadly the box will have to come out to remove the cover. As it would mean removing all cockpit trim and drilling a lot of stainless rivets to get the trans tunnel top off and even then it’s under the dash as I built a sealed firewall  

the engine won’t take long to get out will prob be the box that takes the time. Sadly it’s not been modified for a drain hole plus I’d rather work on the box on the bench to inspect it. Always at the start of summer lol. 

[richyb66]

47 minutes ago, brumster said:

Unless he's modified it and put a drain point in, that's going to be difficult with a type 9

Syringe it out. Buy a litre  of gear oil, decant it in to a separate container and use the bottle and tube to suck the old oil out.