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1st time turn over - contd


zhap135

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This is a continuation of my earlier post about starting a 1.6 pinto that has been languishing for some time

Loads of folk pitched in with advice and help last time which was so useful. I couldn't salvage the Starter unfortunately so bought a new (cheapy) one, which is now cranking nicely.

Next bit, no spark. I've removed a spark plug and earthed it and there is no spark produced whilt cranking

Working backward, the terminals for the coil aren't receiving any juice. Now for the complex bit. I've replaced the fuse box with a 12 mod unit form CBS, which seems to work fine whilst bench testing, BUT there is a terminal on the box for the coil which is currently unused - in this engine (which is an early 1.6) the dizzy and coil seem to get their power feed from the ESC ign module, which in turn seems to get it straight from the ignition switch (in the Ford wiring). Unless I'm missing something.

I know that this is a difficult one to answer straight out without anyone knowing my set up, unless anyone has used a CBS box and come across this problem. any ideas?

 

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Ok. 
how do you have it wired. 
green to coil - 

black to coil +

brown to earth 

white from ign switch live   

orange /purple to dizzy. 
check you have power with key on then check if you have power when cranking.   It might be you have the white wire on the wrong term on ign switch 

 

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Hi Blue, thanks. I'm actually using segments of the original wiring. As it happens I was just studying the haynes wiring diagram, and found the black lead from the EIM (sorry referred to it as the ESC Ig mod above) and traced it back through the harness. I attached this to the appropriate terminal on the box for the coil, and hey presto I now have sparks when cranking! Simple error on my part, but feels good.

Now, still not getting ignition. I believe that I have the plugs in the correct order, BUT the next thing I want to rule out is that they're actually firing at the correct point in the cycle - preferably without striping a load of stuff down.

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I had this a couple of years ago.

The ignition switch was coroded inside and whilst it was putting power to the coil when in the normal run position but moving on to the start position it dropped power to the coil.

I soaked the switch in switch cleaner and opperated it from the off through to the start positon lots of times and it came back to life.

I am told that you can still get this part new from ford but I have not bothered.

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Ok when you say ign do you mean non start as you say you have sparks when cranking.  
simple thing is carb /brake cleaner /easy start. 
spray down the carb if you get moment start start looking at fuel side of things.  
pls let us know how you get on. 
like most of these things all the clues are there you just need to find them. 

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18 hours ago, blue said:

Ok when you say ign do you mean non start as you say you have sparks when cranking.  
simple thing is carb /brake cleaner /easy start. 
spray down the carb if you get moment start start looking at fuel side of things.  
pls let us know how you get on. 
like most of these things all the clues are there you just need to find them. 

Thanks Blue

Yes, I mean not starting but getting sparks. Have removed one spark plug and earthed it and can see sparks on cranking (although I haven't tested all 4)

Brake cleaner - just simple Holts or similar?  The fuel seems to be getting into the cylinders as the spark plugs are "wet"

Next 2 things that I'm going to do -

  • make sure that spark occurs on the compression stroke (rather than the exhaust stroke - I presume that it only sparks every other cycle on a four stroke)
  • refresh the petrol - it's been in the tank for a while. Luckily there's not much there

 

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Hi once spark plugs get wet there next to useless. 
ok are you running engine mounted fuel pump or elect. 
you might be getting flooding due to carb float sticking 

what I would do is cut fuel supply to the carb.  Remove the plugs. Crank it to make sure the bores are empty.  Slightly warm the plugs with a lighter ( keep ya common sense head on ) 

install the plugs and crank engine. 
then a quick spray of Holts or what ever you have if engine fires then carb needs a light strip and clean or look at fuel pressure to carb if using electric fuel pump. 
pls let me know how you get on. 

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14 minutes ago, blue said:

Hi once spark plugs get wet there next to useless. 
ok are you running engine mounted fuel pump or elect. 
you might be getting flooding due to carb float sticking 

what I would do is cut fuel supply to the carb.  Remove the plugs. Crank it to make sure the bores are empty.  Slightly warm the plugs with a lighter ( keep ya common sense head on ) 

install the plugs and crank engine. 
then a quick spray of Holts or what ever you have if engine fires then carb needs a light strip and clean or look at fuel pressure to carb if using electric fuel pump. 
pls let me know how you get on. 

Thanks for the tip on the plugs - just t be clear I don't mean dripping, but there is fuel on them

Engine mounted fuel pump

I'll take the plugs to the other end of the garden and dry with rag before heating them up 🤣

Thanks, I'll give all this a try as soon as I can

 

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On 5/10/2020 at 10:15 AM, IanS said:

I had this a couple of years ago.

The ignition switch was coroded inside and whilst it was putting power to the coil when in the normal run position but moving on to the start position it dropped power to the coil.

I soaked the switch in switch cleaner and opperated it from the off through to the start positon lots of times and it came back to life.

I am told that you can still get this part new from ford but I have not bothered.

Thanks Ian.

The ignition switch seems okay - I bench tested before wiring up, and since my first post I've been able to get sparks on cranking - simply a neglected lead now terminated.

Just that I'm not getting ignition yet. So my to do list is now

  • Clean carbs
  • renew petrol
  • check that spark is occurring on correct stroke
  • Try again!

 

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On 5/11/2020 at 1:33 PM, blue said:

Hi once spark plugs get wet there next to useless. 
ok are you running engine mounted fuel pump or elect. 
you might be getting flooding due to carb float sticking 

what I would do is cut fuel supply to the carb.  Remove the plugs. Crank it to make sure the bores are empty.  Slightly warm the plugs with a lighter ( keep ya common sense head on ) 

install the plugs and crank engine. 
then a quick spray of Holts or what ever you have if engine fires then carb needs a light strip and clean or look at fuel pressure to carb if using electric fuel pump. 
pls let me know how you get on. 

Hi Blue, yes, the engine fires after spraying with holts,  but peters out after a few revs.

I'm pretty sure fuel is reaching the carb itself, as I had to tighten up the fuel lie Jclip to prevent it leaking. A couple of possiblities on my mind are duff fuel, and as you point out dirty carb

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Ok. So we now know we have a fuel prob
take pipe off carb (again sensible head on ) place fuel hose in a clear bottle and crank engine for a few secs. - lets make sure we are getting fuel. - If no pipe blockage and or split dia in pump 

if yes. Move on 
ok under the carb inlet pipe is a brass nut inside is a filter - whip it out see if it’s clean etc.  

if yes 

connect all back up crank engine for a couple of secs if no ignition undo top of carb and see if float bowl is full - if yes a more through clean of carb is required- poss buy an overhaul kit 

if no blow through carb fuel inlet to check float needle and reset floats to correct level-50mm full droop if Dgav Weber 

 

Edited by blue
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16 hours ago, blue said:

Ok. So we now know we have a fuel prob
take pipe off carb (again sensible head on ) place fuel hose in a clear bottle and crank engine for a few secs. - lets make sure we are getting fuel. - If no pipe blockage and or split dia in pump 

if yes. Move on 
ok under the carb inlet pipe is a brass nut inside is a filter - whip it out see if it’s clean etc.  

if yes 

connect all back up crank engine for a couple of secs if no ignition undo top of carb and see if float bowl is full - if yes a more through clean of carb is required- poss buy an overhaul kit 

if no blow through carb fuel inlet to check float needle and reset floats to correct level-50mm full droop if Dgav Weber 

 

Thanks Blue, I'll double check the fuel feed.

Just to preempt, the carb is a ford VV. I cant quite identify the nut that you mentioned - here is a picture of the unit https://photos.app.goo.gl/yWxGysLGyNSzW9QE9

I'm assuming that I'll need to do a strip of the carb, and for this will need new gaskets? 

 

Edited by zhap135
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