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Robin Hood, Pinto Efi Engine Problem


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15 replies to this topic

#1 JImmyRH1

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 09:47 AM

Hi everybody,

I'm Jimmy from the Netherlands, and I have a small problem with my Robin Hood S3A

I bought a Robin Hood with a pinto engine and I changed it to EFI injection for the Dutch regulations..  to bad, because the engine was running great , I took everything from the efi, and the engine started right upů butů 
At first he ran very high RPM, we changed the ignition time to the time it sounds and it runs best around 18 degrees front ignition.

We are working with the strobe light, and adjusting the ignition and the air fuel meter, and we are coming a bit closer but it just is not right yet.

I also have noticed that when he is on 90 degrees, he runs good, but he swings in RPM, and after I played with the gas he starts running higher in RPM. And the gas has a bit of a delay in it..
Can somebody give me more information regarding adjusting the OHC EFI engine, I understand the EECIV adjust everything, but then I have to get the ignition right, and the air fuel meter has to stand right, and I do not know if there are any other things I have to take notice for.

So If anybody can give me some information, or websites where I can find more information I would be very happy  Then I can go to the Dutch SVA and get my registration and licenseplates 
Robin Hood S3A

#2 Megadodo

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 11:20 AM

Pinto EFI throttle vanes are known for being dirty and sticking slightly open. Give the whole outside of the vane and the inlet manifold mating face (the bit the vane closes on) a good clean. Also ensure that the adjusting screw has not been used to hold the vane open (mine was and gave the symptoms you have!) Check the idle control valve is functioning and has no airleaks. Check that there are no air leaks between the AFM and the inlet manifold. Also check that your throttle cable is allowing the vane to close fully. The timing is critical but it sounds like you know what to do there. There are no other adjustments to make but you may have a faulty AFM (air flow meter). It may be a case of trying known working AFM and idle control valve to eliminate them as the cause. Have you used the correct EFI inlet manifold gasket?
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#3 peter2b2002

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 12:46 PM

if you are using all the efi parts, double check that all the hoses don't have any cracks in them , also clean out the idle valve with carb cleaner and fit a new gasket when replacing the idle valve, also check the oil filler cap and hose on the cam cover, mine came loose and caused poor tick over and hi/lo reving making me sound like a boy racer
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#4 JImmyRH1

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 12:48 PM

Thanks for the reply,

I'm at work now, I will translate it to Dutch when I'm home and reply to you.
Robin Hood S3A

#5 Alan_builder

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 04:05 PM

Just one thing that was not made clear was,

It looks like a throttle stop screw for slow running - this should not be adjusted - it is not an idle speed adjuster. The idle speed is set electronically and not adjustable. Air leaks upset the slow running, hence all the gasket advice, and make sure the vane in the AFM rotates freely and comes to rest closed.

There seems to be 2 types of AFM used (the big bit with a vane inside which is sucked round by the incoming air. The difference is the figment of a fuel adjustment potentiometer, some are integral and some are on the wiring to the ECU. So you could have, no pot, one pot,or two pots, and obviously two of the options are wrong. Sorry you must inspect the AFM for the internal and the wiring for the external, I don't have a pot fitted at all, but I know what the problem is.
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#6 JImmyRH1

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 02:33 PM

Thanks for all the answers,
I'll try to answer back.

@ HTH, thanks I will clean the vanes and the manifold, I will also clean the injectors. just to be sure..

-I did adjust the the adjusting screw but I do NOT need to touch this, I have to make sure that the vane is closed and then screw the adjustment screw tight..
-How can I check the idle valve, can I put 12 v on it and then it closes and opens..?
- I will double check for air leaks

I've ordered a new gasket set so I will change them again after I've cleaned it all out.
____________________________

@peter2B

- My oil filler cap is closed, do I need one with a hose..? or is the closed one also oke.?
____________________________
@ Alan builder

How can I see if the air flow meter is working correct.? I have one spare so I could try the other one, there is also a screw on the AFM.. do you know the position it should stand..?

I bought a complete pinto efi with everything there, the afm is grey metal, with a black plastic cover.

What does the Potentiometer look like... It is possible offcourse that the way you call it in GB, is different than we do in Holland :)

Thanks for all the help.!
Robin Hood S3A

#7 peter2b2002

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 04:07 PM

Hi , the oil filler cap has a hose to connect it to the inlet hose just before the air flow meter on the (so that oil fumes are burnt)but on an old pinto engine these fumes can clog up the air flow meter and the idle valve so just washing the idle valve and air meter vane can cure tick over problems, the idle valve is moved by air pressure not 12 volts.
peter2b

#8 Alan_builder

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 04:58 PM

View PostJImmyRH1, on 27 September 2011 - 02:33 PM, said:

____________________________
@ Alan builder

How can I see if the air flow meter is working correct.? I have one spare so I could try the other one, there is also a screw on the AFM.. do you know the position it should stand..?

I bought a complete pinto efi with everything there, the afm is grey metal, with a black plastic cover.

What does the Potentiometer look like... It is possible off course that the way you call it in GB, is different than we do in Holland :)

Thanks for all the help.!

You need the AFM in your hand. Look in the port (I can't remember which one) (I have am idea it is the outlet side) Rotate the vane by pulling it or pushing it, it only moves one way and I seem to remember it is the wrong way for easy operation. DO NOT DAMAGE THE EDGES! It should rotate against a spring, smoothly and return under control to the closed position, don't just let go of it. When closed there should be no gap as you will get in a carb. One I had stuck a little way open, hence the high RPM.

A Potentiometer is a variable resistor, there are millions of types, but I expect this one has a screwdriver slot if it is on the AFM and in the loom, it could be for fingers or screwdriver.
If you have the matching AFM and ECU with the original loom you should be ok for adjusting the air fuel mixture with it. I only bring the problem to your notice as you have a problem and while you purchased a set you don't know that it is infact a set.

I thought I had a set and I obviously don't. As My AFM has no potentiometer, I can't find one and an other guy said there should be one and I found a potentiometer in the wiring connected & near the ECU I presume there are 2 types.

Do let us know what you find.

Goodluck Alan
PS I will attach a photo from my phone later.

Attached Files


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#9 Alan_builder

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 05:43 PM

Attached File  1317144654589.jpg   27.25K   13 downloads

Attached Files


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#10 JImmyRH1

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:58 PM

Posted Image

Hi thanks for the answer, I will translate it tomorrow at work :) so I can answer you. the afm looks the same as your photo.

I already found 1 thing I did wrong, I put a ohc carb gasket in the inlet... and not the ohc efi gasket, so the new one i've ordered is the right one :)
I also already cleaned the throttle vane.. (picture is an example)
Robin Hood S3A

#11 Alan_builder

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 09:07 PM

View PostJImmyRH1, on 27 September 2011 - 07:58 PM, said:

Posted Image

I also already cleaned the throttle vane.. (picture is an example)

Just another thought, the potentiometer which is used to detect the butterfly position could be troublesome. Don't remove it. Check the wiper moves up and down smoothly by using a resistance meter.
If you move the pot you will have to set it back so the ECU sees the same end resistance and max value for the rotation of the butterfly, not easy and to be avoided unless you have to.

It looks nice and clean.
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#12 Megadodo

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 06:58 AM

I think you have solved most of the issue with the gasket! One of the chaps on this forum fitted a carb inlet gasket and it caused an air leak and I'm sure the injector spray pattern will be partially blocked. Don't "swap" the AFM until you have tried it with the correct gasket. Just to make clear, the filler cap breather pipe should go in to the main inlet air intake pipe between the AFM and the inlet manifold.
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#13 Alan_builder

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 07:15 AM

Hi Again,
I remember a post about the slow running valve (throttle bypass valve) in which it said it was driven by air.
That I think is incorrect. It is essentially a tap for air, and its position is set by the ECU. Now the ECU has 0v and +12v, so to get the motor to run both ways Ford had 2 options, either change the polarity of the 2 wire feed or set one at +6v and then take the other to 0v or +12v, I think it was the first option Ford chose but I don't know for sure.

I do believe most car manufacturers use the same principle as this feature has to be available in the After Market ECUs.
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#14 JImmyRH1

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 07:47 PM

From origine I'm an Opel (Vauxhall) man, (I've build 3 nova's to 2.0 and also an Astra mk1 to 2.0) and and I know that the stationaire valve is powered with 12v... so therefor I thought Ford has the same, but I have to say, when you take the time and search the internet for the right people, things will come good :)

__________
ht, the potentiometer which is used to detect the butterfly position could be troublesome. Don't remove i
__________________

If that is the black sensor on the throttle vane this one I took it off, but I put it back the same way..

This evening I've cleaned the complete inlet manifold and i brought the injectors to a company to get them cleaned out.

Posted Image

This is my car, or atleast when I bought it.. :)
Robin Hood S3A

#15 Alan_builder

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 09:49 PM

That look very nice.
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