Superspec Engine Turning Not Starting

[aardvark]

Hi folks

 

I've checked the other posts on similar matters and they don't exactly help.

 

I've been rewiring and labelling the wires behind the dash using a wiring module from CBS and in preparation for putting in a set of vintage Smiths guages.

 

I've got a fair amount done. I snipped all the wires from the old ford clocks and labelled most of them first.

 

I've got the indicators, lights, horn, hazards, reverse light, flash and heater working. I'm going to put the wipers and wash on a retro switch rather than the focus stalks.

 

I've also got the engine warning light wired to the alternator. That's working. I'll be working on the rad fan today if I get chance.

 

I've got a few wired left over :-( which I haven't yet traced.

 

However, now when I crank the engine, it turns over nicely but doesn't fire.

 

I've tried investigating the fuel pump which I think is in the fuel talk (there is a brown cable running to point 1 on the plug which I think should be power to the pump. When I crank the engine there is no power to that point. But I might be barking up the wring tree there I suspect. The same brown cable disappears under the scuttle somewhere but I haven't yet traced it.

 

I have also a pair of cables connected to either side of the ignition coil which I haven't managed to figure out (I was too hasty cutting then or many the label fell off!) By the way my coil is not marker +ve or -ve. Is the larger bolt the +ve? there are other wires coming out of the coil which appear to go to the emu.

 

I've checked the spark plugs and there is no spark to them.

 

I'm a bit flummoxed now and wonder if I can have some pointers from the pros. I think I need to be testing the coil is wired up correctly. I haven't touched it but may have c@cked something up behind the dash??

 

I only have perhaps an hour in an evening to tinker so this may take a while.

 

Aamir

[aardvark]

Hey guys

 

Anyone got any clues on where I should start looking?

 

A

[Guest Sharky]

If the engine turns then it's only one of two things - spark or fuel and it seems you ain't got sparks so far!

Pop the fuel feed pipe off and place it into a fuel can and then crank to see if you are getting a fuel feed to eliminate that as a problem.

 

Next, you said you have a brown wire off point 1 - are you talking about the ignition switch or somewhere else? A point to note on Ign switch is that there is a 12V feed off the starter to the position marked 30 (IIRC)then there are wires coming off position 1 and pos 2 and finally a red/wh back to the starter solenoid from pos 3. At Position 1 you will get a feed off to most of the excess cack such as radio, position 2 will do lights and wipers fuel pump, coil and turning to position 3 will isolate everything on Pos 1 and allow only Pos 2 and starter solenoid (if that makes sense?)

 

Finally, as you ain't got sparks, get your coil connected up - I can't help on big nut/little nut coil question as I am Zetec Injection etc.

 

Not sure if that helps matey, but as you had no replies at all after two days, I thought I'd try and get you started!

 

Good luck fella!

 

Sharky

[aardvark]

Thanks Sharky will start there.

 

The brown wire is not from the ignition switch, it comes in from under the scuttle to the cabin. Will need to trace it, might be a red herring.

 

With regard to this:

 

"Next, you said you have a brown wire off point 1 - are you talking about the ignition switch or somewhere else? A point to note on Ign switch is that there is a 12V feed off the starter to the position marked 30 (IIRC)then there are wires coming off position 1 and pos 2 and finally a red/wh back to the starter solenoid from pos 3. At Position 1 you will get a feed off to most of the excess cack such as radio, position 2 will do lights and wipers fuel pump, coil and turning to position 3 will isolate everything on Pos 1 and allow only Pos 2 and starter solenoid (if that makes sense?)"

 

I thing its all OK but will double check

 

I think the bit I don't understand is "Finally, as you ain't got sparks, get your coil connected up"

 

What triggers the coil to send current to the plugs?

 

A

[Guest Sharky]

Ok, here goes, the coil has two concentric windings (this isn't a wind up is it?) well bummocks even if it is!

 

Anyway the coil has a primary and secondary winding, 12v power runs through the primary winding and from basic school physics you will remember that a current passing through a wire causes a magnetic field to form around it - which also engulfs the secondary winding.

 

If you now stop the current in the primary winding suddenly (by cleverly opening some contact breaker points or using some other equally sneaky electronic method) the magnetic field collapses and as it does so, it induces a very high voltage current in the secondary winding wire. This high voltage passes down the master lead into the distributor and if the distributor rotor arm is in line with a plug lead the spark jumps the gap and is on it's way to the plug.

 

So essentially you need an ignition supply from the battery through the points and up to the coil, the distributor/points need to be 'timed' or aligned so that when each piston comes to the top of its squeeze stroke, the spark is released down the correct plug lead and bang goes the fuel/air mix and you have a power stroke.

 

So if you ain't got a spark, it means there's no induction into the secondary winding going on, which means there's no 12v feed via the primary winding or no points or bad timing etc etc etc

 

Now where's Alan .....?

 

HTH?

 

Oh and BTW, we have now reached the limit of Sharky's knowledge and anything I say from now on will be Bovine Scatology, so you will have to wait until Longboarder or another Jedi Master, comes along to set any of my mistakes right and pass on more useful wisdom!

 

I am off for a lie down in a darkened room now!

 

Alan! Alan! ALAN!!

 

Sharky

[aardvark]

Hey Sharky

 

I take my hat off to you fella

 

Thats the most comprehensive answer to a dumb I've ever seen. Not it wasn't a wind-up but I was asking a much simpler question not really the inner working and the science behind winding. It was very interestting though and I learned something, thanks !!

 

What I wanted to know was how the ignition coil should be connected to the other components and how I can check its working. Sorry for the confusion mate.

 

Basically, there are 3 connections from the ingition coil. I know what the fat one is :-) what should be on the 2 connectors on either side of the lead to the dizzy? Igition live and earth? I suspect I'm wrong somehow but will experiment today (and buys a spare coil just in case lol

 

Aardvark

[Guest QuadraDave]

Hi i take it this is the rover 2 ltr engined super spec im on holiday at the moment so not near my car or wiring diagram so im going from memory the negitive on the coil goes to the black and white in the ecu socket thru engine loom multi plug. The two wires on coil positve 1 goes to the rev counter the other is igniton live to coil this also links in engine multi plug to a brown and pink wire ? or green and purple this then goes to ecu socket if this is not linked to ignition live the ecu will not switch the fuel pump or idle stepper motor on hope this helps if you have wiring diagram it shows the wire colour at the top of diagram at ecu socket linking to coil positive if your still having prolems give me a ring on 07718516898 and i will try and talk you thru it Dave D ps the thick terminal on coil is positive. pps the black and white wire to negitive on coil is your pulsed earth of ecu to create spark

[aardvark]

Thanks for this Dave.

 

Checked all that, especially the 2 wires to the ecu (white and black to -ve and green and white to +ve). They were always intact and had not been disturbed. Swapped out the coil with a new one and no change in status.

 

Auto Sparky coming tomorrow to have a butchers.

 

Cheers

 

Aardvark

[Guest QuadraDave]

Hi let me know what they find without being there with car its hard for me to know whats working when you put ignition on and whats not working this usually points me in the right direction to find fault sorry i could not help you Did you check for live output from ecu relay. Dave D

[aardvark]

Thanks for everyone who tried to help on this.

 

Had an auto electician out today. It was a corroded earth on the ecu plug. Took him a while but it starts and runs as sweet as a nut.

 

So I hadn't done anything wrong after all, (which is unusual for me lol)

 

Happy as Larry :-)

 

Aardvark

[harvs]

Congratulations - that sounds like a hard one to spot.