Will Not Start

[Derek]

I have a 2ltr SOHC Pinto running with the standard EFI system.

The problem started a few weeks ago but has got very much worse now.

Sometimes it will start no problem, but if it doesn't catch on the first fire it will not start at all no matter how much you crank it. If I squirt carb cleaner into the intake it will start and once running it seems to be running rich (plugs are sooty and black). And it starts with a tow or bump. (Thanks again Ian )

Checked spark, fuel to rail under pressure, fuel return, air flow box, tick over valve cleaned, and all seem to be working OK.

Took the inlet manifold off (still connected to fuel, ECU etc) and when cranking there is no fuel from the injectors; should there be?

 

Cannot work out why it seems to run OK but wont start.

If anyone has any ideas they would be most welcome, as I cant find any more hammers to throw around!

[Guest chris brown]

when cranking there is no fuel from the injectors; should there be?

 

Cannot work out why it seems to run OK but wont start.

If anyone has any ideas they would be most welcome, as I cant find any more hammers to throw around!

Yes they should be injecting Derek otherwise it wont start. I suspect either low fuel pressure (either pump or fuel pressure relief valve) or the injectors aren’t getting a switching signal

[stevedohc2b]

Derek

 

is the fuel pump priming when you switch on ignition runs for a second or 2 then stops. If it is you should have high pressure at rail crack a line to check note very high pressure take care ware goggles.

 

If all fuel seams ok must be an ecu or injection prob try and swap the ecu.

 

If it is not priming try to hot wire pump. if then ok it could be the ecu as this runs the priming and when engine is running switches to run pump all time.

 

I had the opposite prob with my new engine and ecu it would prime and start but would not rev pump primes and switched off when engine was running but could not hear it as engine was running took me ages.

 

I assume you have spark and compression is good.

 

Sounds like my car at Tan hill last year IE fuel pump.

 

 

Stephen

[Redspec]

Hi Derek,

 

Have You checked the battery voltage when cranking, If it starts with a bump or a tow, will start if it fires first time or with the aid of easy start it could be the battery voltage is dropping below a critical level but not enough to stop it from cranking.

Try to jump start it or swap the battery out for a good one.

It may not be this but it is an easy test before stripping things down.

 

Steve

[Derek]

Thanks for your help much appreciated.

 

Chapter 2

Stephen (DOHC2B) Thanks for your call BTW

The fuel is defiantly up to pressure, had to wait 10 mins for it all to evaporate after taking the flexi to the fuel rail off.

 

Steve(Redspec) tried hooking it up to another battery (in the Mrs car) still no joy.

 

The injectors are defiantly working when its running but not when its cranking.

I think its an ECU problem some sort of fail safe mode maybe, because its running so rich(once its going).

 

Any other suggestions most welcome as the ECU is buried under 4 years of dash mods!

[Guest Nigel Novice]

In the old days (i'm old you know) ford used a low voltage coil that had a 12v feed from the starter solenoid to to the coil to give it a boost on starting which once started then dropped back to low voltage via a resistor, had a few cases of the wires parting and leaving no spark on cranking, just a thought. not up on these new fangled ECU jobbies yet, and a fair way off fitting harness.

[Guest chris brown]

Thanks for your help much appreciated.

 

Chapter 2

Stephen (DOHC2B) Thanks for your call BTW

The fuel is defiantly up to pressure, had to wait 10 mins for it all to evaporate after taking the flexi to the fuel rail off.

 

Steve(Redspec) tried hooking it up to another battery (in the Mrs car) still no joy.

 

The injectors are defiantly working when its running but not when its cranking.

I think its an ECU problem some sort of fail safe mode maybe, because its running so rich(once its going).

 

Any other suggestions most welcome as the ECU is buried under 4 years of dash mods!

If all else fails Derek I have a spair ECU (as you know I always carry one) Which I will get to you somehow if you need it.

[stevedohc2b]

Derek

 

Disconnect the battery for 10 mins this will re set the ecu and it then should be driven to learn again. If it starts.

 

Have a good look around the engine loom and pull connectors and give a shot of contact cleaner dry out and re fit could be as simple as a dirty/contact.

 

You could also check the continuity back to the big ford connector. and then back to the ecu.

 

also look at the fuses and relays they may be corroded.

 

 

ECU IS still top bet.

 

found this

 

ECU Testing

23A Church Street

Eastwood

Nottingham

NG16 3HP (Road Map)

Tel: 01773 535638

 

weblink

 

Stephen

[Guest Nigel Novice]

Just had another thought, a while back I had a 5 series BMW and it would die on me like fuel starvation (run out) would do it without warning, narrowed it down to the fuel supply relay, went off to get one from local factors, they didn't do it but a chap waiting to get served told me to take all the relays out (one at a time) and then put them back in giving them a good wiggle at the same time, I did that and it never cut out again, seems the contacts fur up a bit.

[Derek]

Thanks for that Steve.

Ive just called them and they will test the ECU either on or off the car.

Also they can test the sensors and fuel pressure on the car if the ECU is not the problem.

 

And its not too far from the office.

 

I will take Chris up on his offer of the spare to see if that works. Just got to sort the logistics

[Guest FIRSTBUILD]

I have a very similar problem to this one,

 

I have found that switching the ignition on and of several times will make it start !

 

makes me think it may be a relay sticking ?

 

its a tough one ! it runs so well after it starts .

 

Steve

[Derek]

The story doth move forward!

 

Replaced the ECU (Thanks Chris) and Bingo it started.

Turned it of and it restarted. Ran very well.

Repeated several times no problem.

Went back to it a bit later dead as a Dodo.

 

(1) Please bear in mind it runs very well once started.

 

If the hall effect in the dizzy provides the signal for spark, fuel pump and injectors how come I have only Spark and fuel pump when cranking. Once running I can hear the injectors firing away no problem.

 

I have double checked all the things suggested

Fuel supply (see (1) above)

Power in the system (Jump leads from another battery)

Ignition off/on does not help

By passed the ignition switch just in case it has failed.

Cross wire the hall effect plug and I get Spark and fuel pump but no injectors.

 

Chris Brown and myself are baffled, if it runs it should start I know its the injectors but why don't they fire?

 

Any advice would be most welcome.

[Guest FIRSTBUILD]

just a thought - have you cleaned/checked the twin plugs that feed the injectos? you probably have. I removed the plugs and soldered the cables together and still occasionally have the same sort of problem.

 

when mine hasnt started I have disconnected the battery, turned on the ignition then re connect the battery whilst listening under the bonnet - flased it a couple of times and bingo it starts !

 

this still makes me think its a relay or something "lazy" in the ecu

 

keep plodding on, it will be interesting to find out what it turns out to be.........

 

Steve

[stevedohc2b]

Derek

 

I have sent You an e mail OR 2

I thought you were sorted when I spoke to Chris

 

Stephen

[Guest chris brown]

Derek

 

I have sent You an e mail OR 2

I thought you were sorted when I spoke to Chris

 

Stephen

So did I Steve, BUT I hadn’t got home before I got a phone call to say it was back to square one. So come on guys get your thinking heads on BTW changed the ECU and it started instantly 4 or 5 times then a couple of hours later failed again. Everything works except the injectors. This is a bog standard Ford system with no modifications.