New Loom Trouble

[Guest wigman_99]

 

So I've taken the week off work to get down to the rewire. New Premier loom in hand I set about identifying all the sub looms and their components. All going well.

 

Then comes the ECU. Nothing in the new loom or supporting paperwork mentions the aluminium box with lots of wires coming out of it.

 

I phoned up the Premier Wiring man. Apparently because I've got carbs, I shouldn't have an ECU. My build (which I didn't do) is a cross between carbed and injection and it'll take some work to rectify it. So much for an MOT on Fri.

 

Can anyone explain and perhaps offer a solution.... I don't really understand what I have here and the sun isn't going to last forever!

 

Very grateful for any help.

 

Confused. Ed

 

It's a 2B, 2.0L pinto with twin weber 40s

[Guest Dan_Beeston]

What type of distributor have you got?

I suspect the EECIV is still connected up to the dizzy and TFI module, and is running the ignition side of things.

 

Does it all work? If so it might be a case of it's not broke so don't fix it! You could still rewire the rest of the car, just dont touch anything connected to the ECU!

 

(If you PM me an e-mail address I can send you a wiring diagram for the Sierra with fuel injection, might help tracing wires?)

[speedtripledan]

My 2b is the same was injected now carbed as such the loom supports the ecu side of things with mine Ive now disconnected and removed all the efi stuff as i have put a bestek dizzy system on which only needs a positive coil feed to it.

but if you still have the efi dizzy you will need to retain the ecu and module it also controlled my fuel pump which i had to rewire when i removed it all.

 

How much was your loom as i need to rewire mine now due to other faults

 

Dan

[Guest wigman_99]

My 2b is the same was injected now carbed as such the loom supports the ecu side of things with mine Ive now disconnected and removed all the efi stuff as i have put a bestek dizzy system on which only needs a positive coil feed to it.

but if you still have the efi dizzy you will need to retain the ecu and module it also controlled my fuel pump which i had to rewire when i removed it all.

 

How much was your loom as i need to rewire mine now due to other faults

 

Dan

 

 

 

 

Loom was £126.50 inc P&P and VAT. Where did you get the dizzy from? How did you rewire the fuel pump?

[speedtripledan]

Hi,

bestek have an ebay shop, i got a fast road dizzy with control box (ecu) and high output coil for £180. I,ve wired the fuel pump to a ignition switched live with a switch on the dash so i can switch it off if needs be and it will help confuse a potential thief.

 

Dan

[Dave R]

cheaper ways than that.... carb dizzy and amp unit

[Guest wigman_99]

cheaper ways than that.... carb dizzy and amp unit

 

 

Cheers Dave, cheap is always good. Care to expand on what a carb dizzy and amp unit is and where I can get one?

[Guest Dan_Beeston]

Even cheaper than that is keep the ecu, proper mapped ignition at no extra cost :-p

[ibrooks]

OK - since you're running twin 40's you shouldn't be running the original fuel injection pump - it makes way too high pressure for carbs. It could have been regulated down to the correct pressure but that's not good for the pump as it'll think it's trying to pump against a brick wall all the time.

 

You're obviously not running fuel injectors since their role has been replaced with carbs.

 

So all that the aluminium box with wires coming out of it is doing is arranging when the spark happens. It's a lot of weight and un-necessary complication for just that. Yes it will do the job and several people have kept it for just this but I wouldn't and I wouldn't advise it. It's not a "proper" mapped iginition either. It's only got a map for a standard injected Pinto outside of this specification it will probably work "OK" but it'll still always be a compromise. Most do have a second socket for the EPROM chip and you can shove a replacement in there and have it take precedence over the original maps but it's not a simple process.

 

The easiest option in my opinion (and Dave R's from the sounds of it) is to get hold of the dizzy and amplifier from a Sierra which had a carb on a Pinto. This is a pretty simple electronic ignition system. The advance curve (map) is still controlled mechanically by bob-wieghts and springs inside the dizzy so it's pretty primitive by modern standards and still a compromise but it's good enough and will work as well as retaining the original Ford ECU. The amplifier is a little black brick that sits on the inner wing of the Sierra with about 6 wires going into it. It's a much smaller simpler setup than the injection stuff. Your new loom is probably geared towards this setup.

 

The other alternative is to find a dizzy from an earlier carbed Pinto (Cortina/Capri/Transit/Granada) which still has contact breaker points. You'll also need to replace the coil if you go for this one and bear in mind that points need regular maintenance and are much more susceptible to damp than electronic ignition. They worked for a long time though until transistors started getting into cars.

 

Beyond this you could be looking at something called Megajolt. This is a build-it-yourself ignition system that uses parts from a more modern Ford (EDIS) and a small ECU to do the job of the dizzy. It's a truly mappable system that you plug a computer into and give it a map. It needs sensors around the engine to know what's going on and bases the decision about how much advance to use based on the info it gets back. Very good and very cost effective but unless your engine is quite highly modified you probably won't see much benefit for the money and effort.

 

Iain

[Guest Dan_Beeston]

Actually it's a good point that with carbs I assume you haven't got a air-flow meter anymore?

 

The EEC-IV will probably just give a speed based advance, so you wouldn't gain the extra economy that vacuum based advance gives you (or air-flow adjusted, in this case!)

[speedtripledan]

With regards to the bestek dizzy set up, i bought that with a curve suitable for the spec i,m running on the engine and what a difference the set up runs better now than when the engine was standard. Not cheap but 1 live feed 1 negative to the chassis and i was up and running all with brand new parts last thing i wanted was unknown 2nd hand parts braking when i,m out and about.

Ive had enough problems without adding to them.

 

Good Luck

 

Dan

[Dave R]

Cheers Dave, cheap is always good. Care to expand on what a carb dizzy and amp unit is and where I can get one?

 

 

think there is one in my garage

will look later, as its no good to me now

definitly a plug to fit the amp, possibly a loom to go with it

 

all you would need is a coil (maybe as think the efi is diffent ? can someone confirm ?)

 

pm me

[Guest wigman_99]

I've taken the jump (rearwards perhaps) and bought an old pinto dizzy off ebay. It has points and a vacuum advance.

 

Can I use my original coil and amp, or do I need to change them too?

[ibrooks]

If they are for an electronic ignition setup then you'll need to change them or you'll melt the points in fairly short order. Coils for a points dizzy have a much higher resistance in the primary windings to limit the amount of current that the points are required to handle (and to stop the coil from getting mighty hot if the engine is stopped with the points closed and the ignition left on - dead short through the coil). Electronic setups have much less resistance which is good for bigger sparks and faster recovery times but you need transistorised switches to control them properly - truly momentary contacts and impossible to have them in a condition where they are shorted for any length of time.

 

Iain

[Guest wigman_99]

If they are for an electronic ignition setup then you'll need to change them or you'll melt the points in fairly short order. Coils for a points dizzy have a much higher resistance in the primary windings to limit the amount of current that the points are required to handle (and to stop the coil from getting mighty hot if the engine is stopped with the points closed and the ignition left on - dead short through the coil). Electronic setups have much less resistance which is good for bigger sparks and faster recovery times but you need transistorised switches to control them properly - truly momentary contacts and impossible to have them in a condition where they are shorted for any length of time.

 

Iain

 

 

 

Thanks Iain, it's beginning to make sense. I've looked over a couple of sites to try and buy such a coil, but am baffled by the amount available. Can anyone point me in the right direction.

 

This ignition system thing really is a minefield!

 

Cheers, Ed