Type 9 Rear Oil Seal

[Guest Ant]

When I built my 2B I replaced the rear seal on type 9 box where the prop shaft fits. Ever since first built it's been leaking oil onto the floor panels from the gearbox, and at first I thought it was paint blocking the gearbox vents, but having cleaned them out its still leaking. It doesn't leak a lot regularly, but on a long drive (such as back from Le Mans) it has lost quite a lot. the oil is running along the floor panel and soaking into the carpets which is annoying to say the least. Closer inspection through the spy hole in the floor shows that the oil is coming out around the prop shaft seal.

 

When I fitted this seal I used a large socket and a mallet to push it into the gearbox extension housing. I'm now wondering if either I've pushed it in too far, possibly damaging the bush / bearing behind it. I also seem to recall something from ages ago about RHE supplying two different sized propshafts. Could it be that I have the wrong one, hence the leak?

 

Anyone got any experience with this seal and what's behind it on a type 9 box? If so, any tips to give? I don't really want to remove the gearbox, fit another seal, and then have the same thing happen again.

 

Does anyone reckon its possible to remove the propshaft from a 2B and replace this seal without removing the engine first?

 

All help appreciated

Ant

[Guest Andy Rathbone]

you may tell me to get stuffed but have you simply just over filled the grrrbox with oil?

if not then it sounds like you need to change the seal. be carfull not to push it in too far.

i did mine with the grrbox in the car but no tunnel sides on. you could do it this way depending on how you attatched you tunnel sides

 

your options as i see them, cut access hole in the floor underneath and do it that way, the cover it up after to keep the muck out. you may need to drop your diff out, so you can get the propshaft out

 

or i'm afraid its engine and box out :boohoo:

 

good luck hope you sort it

[Guest Ant]

I filled it until it ran out of the filling hole. This is only about an inch or two up the side so I doubt I put too much in. There's only one plug in the side, isn't there?

[Guest TerryBarry]

According to Haynes manual 5 speed boxes from May 1985 oil level is 0 to 5 mm below the lower edge of plug hole.

I compared the RH and Ford propshaft diameters before fitting and the RH one was the same size - well a few thou' larger

The diameter of the Ford part was 35.0mm

Terry

[Big Jim]

when fitting the oil seal, it shouldn't be knocked in as far as it goes, but should be flush with the outer face.

[Guest Ant]

when fitting the oil seal, it shouldn't be knocked in as far as it goes, but should be flush with the outer face.

Given what the others have said, I reckon this is my problem. Does anyone know what's behind it? If I put it in too far (about 1/2 inch from flush or more) will it get ripped by whatever is behind it? the Haynes manual shows a sort of collar but I can't work out whether this turns or not. If it turns, I guess this could (would) damage the seal?

 

Ant

[Guest chris brown]

Ant if you can get the propshaft off I wouldn’t even bother trying to get the old one out just bang in another on top like we all did on the mini gear change

[Guest Ant]

Finally got the prop shaft out tonight (having dropped the diff), and I was a bit surprised by what I found!

 

The oil seal in the back of the gearbox looks fine I think. Here's a photo:

 

 

But the prop shaft seems to have a grove worn in it:

 

 

It looks like the prop has been running on the metal ring around the edge of the seal rather than on the seal itself.

 

I can now replace the seal, and the prop shaft will need replacing, but what's to stop it happening again?

 

Can anyone help with the following:

 

- Did the prop always have this grove in it? Seems unlikely, but I'm not sure.

 

- What does your oil seal look like? Is there a metal ring just outside of the rubber seal?

 

- In the Sierra setup the prop was supported half way down. Is the fact that this support isn't there on the 2B the reason why it's rubbing on the metal ring of the seal?

 

Any other advice?

 

Anyone got a spare prop shaft you don't need?

 

Ant

[Guest TerryBarry]

In the Sierra setup the prop was supported half way down. Is the fact that this support isn't there on the 2B the reason why it's rubbing on the metal ring of the seal?

Hi Ant,

The front end of the propshaft is carried on the splined output shaft of the gearbox, therefore with the very short shaft of the 2B no load should be imposed onto the oil seal by the absence of the centre bearing. Unless the rear bearing of the gearbox is knackered.

It's difficult looking at your pic of the oil seal to see how far it is pressed into the housing. On mine the original seal was flush with the end of the housing and I pressed the replacement into the same position.

I have experience of a Vauxhall gearbox problem where there was some slight vibration at 55mph in top gear - on examination the rear oil seal and surrounding area of extension housing had been totally destroyed.

 

Terry

[Guest Battery Bill]

Ant

This has not got anything to do with you blocking the breather hole does it?

Because you had a leaking gearbox at Donington, and there was somthing on the site about you blocking your hole

[Guest Ant]

I painted the gearbox, and when oil first started leaking from it I presumed that I'd managed to block up the vent, hence pressure must be forcing the oil out of one of the seals ... but I cleared the vent ... and the oil kind of stopped ... but then got worse coming back from Le Mans!

 

Should the prop have that groove in it? Is it definitely a fault which mine has developed?

 

More photos here - pretty high res so they're big files:

 

http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/~eazaja/Kit_Car/tmp/

 

Following on from Terry's post, would knocking the seal in too far damage the rear gearbox bearing? And how can I tell if it's damaged? Should I be able to feel it?

 

Ant

[Guest Great Scott!!]

Hi Ant

Just seen this post

Right the first thing is no your prop should definatly not have a groove like that and looking closely at your pic I would say that the bush in the back of your box is worn out hence the pick up marks on the prop(looks like its had a lot of friction I can see discolouration, should be shiny silver) and the oil leak!

You obviously need a new prop or get the end changed once you got a new one then offer it into the back of the box and what your looking for is up and down, side to side play if theres lots of play the bush is us, now the bad news is changing the bush is a pig of a job with the box on the bench i doubt very much..infact i'd go so far to say its impossible to change bush in the car,and next bit of bad news(sorry) is i don't think you can buy the bush from fords maybe quicker and easier to just find another gearbox.

One last thing it does not matter how far the seal goes into the box because the case has a lip so the seal will only go so far and stop and the prop should enter the box plenty to seal.

hope this helps

regards

scott

[Guest Ianz]

Ant

To try and make you feel better!!!!

 

Is it not possible the groove was on the prop from day one,ie could this

prop been faulty when it was supplied by RHSC,bearing in mind that this would

have been a reconditioned component.

 

The splined shaft in the back of the gearbox is their any noticeable play with the prop fitted ?????

I would have thought that their would be quite significent play to wear a groove

about 1/2mil -1mil ,as the seal should be capable of sealing the prop shaft to at least + - 2mil

How many miles has your car done?????

 

Personally I would fit the new seal and see how it goes for a few months

and perhaps look to a more permanent fix,if your not happy,in the winter months

and enjoy driving the car for now.

 

 

Cheers Ian

[Guest Battery Bill]

Ianz

Is it not possible the groove was on the prop from day one,ie could this

prop been faulty when it was supplied by RHSC,bearing in mind that this would

have been a reconditioned component.

I thought it was a made to measure Job, not a recon item

[Guest Ianz]

Bill

 

I think RHSC get the props shortened,the ends are as they come off Sierra's!!!!