Davo

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I'm putting a zetec blacktop into my hood at some point soon. I have  a mounting kit as per here https://www.kitspares.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=883&search=zetec+mount

One of the mounts matches up well, but the other side doesn't appear to have the right formation of holes anywhere. 

Does anyone happen to have any photos or descriptions where these type of mounts bolt to the engine?

Thank you. Makes sense.  It's added to my shopping list of things!

I’m just trying to figure out this wiring loom. The instructions I’m folllwimg keep referring to the c2513. Does anyone know what connector that is? Picture? 

So I got a bit more familiar with the engine and loom today, one thing that came to question is what about the ac compressor and power steering? Do they stay or go and if so what to do with the pulley??

Thank you. I'm over my Dad's tomorrow where its stored, so I'll have a chance to properly have a look around it.

On 4/1/2021 at 5:36 PM, nelmo said:

The issue with the sump is nothing to do with the pickup, it's the depth of it. The standard sump will give you zero ground clearance so it has to be replaced. You have a choice of getting the standard one chopped down and re-welded by someone or buying a new one. GBS and Tiger sell one for around £300, Raceline do one for about £500.

Throttle cable - you can re-use the throttle body from the engine (which includes the TPS) but you can buy a set of throttle bodies (damn expensive - GBS sell them for about £2k but they will get an extra 20bhp out the engine and it'll sound much better). If you use the Ford TB, you'll need the basic plenum which GBS sell for £200 or so...(look at my blog, I used that).

I don't have a brake servo - just spend more time in the gym

 

I think I understand. Will probably go with the engine throttle body and then eventually upgrade. 
 

not sure I understand plenum though. If the engine was running in the focus and I have all the bits from the focus, what else do I need? 
 

On 4/1/2021 at 5:26 PM, MarkBzero said:

RWD = rear wheel drive, they tend to shortened to give more ground clearance. I will have a ATR sump for blacktop for sale soon.

I got a kit off eBay for engine mounts, tacked them myself in situ and asked friend to do a proper job.

You do not need a water, it looks cleaner and you easily fit temperature and fan switch. Some have used original thermostat housing and pipe (hoover tube).

 

Thank you. If that’s what I need to make it fit then please let me know. 

I'm just quoting a load of things other people talk about so I may get the terminology wrong!

Sump - I say RWD sump, because I understand if you're turning the engine 90 degrees you need a sump which collects front to back as opposed to left to right? I really don't know - just guessing. If you can tell me what it is I need then that would help massively.

Water system - yes, I mean what you said! The rail. I'll have a go then at doing that myself, if it doesn't work then I can look for a pre made thing.

Exhaust..... yes...... wrong side. Don't really know what I'm looking for, so I just look In the Burton catalogue but would be keen for cheaper manifolds.

Accelerator cable - I have no idea. All I know is I have a cable that goes form the pedal to the carb. I guess, I'm going to need some kind of position sensor.

Brake servo --- oh..... yes, haven't even thought how it connects up. How did you make yours fit?

Engine mounts? I guess I'll have to google to buy them unless my dad feels like helping me make them.

Now this Is exactly why I don't want to just start putting it in the car until I have everything ready.

I did indeed see it running before it was taken out

The whole bench test is more to build my confidence so I know how it wires up, I can make any necessary changes before taking on the big task of fitting it.  Tell me if I'm wrong, but I think I'm going to have to change the sump to a RWD sump, fit an adaptor to the cooling system etc and I'm guessing the sump at least has to be done before installing. 

At the moment a I have a 'not great', but working pinto in a running car which I can use. I'd rather not get to the situation where I've fitted the engine but then struggling to make it run etc. 

Re cooling, I had just planned to grab an old radiator from somewhere. to run it out the car. 

Like you, my dash sensors are limited -

• speedo - currently runs off the wire that goes back to the gearbox, that can stay as is
• rev counter - currently runs off the coil as a sensing lead. I can adjust the settings on it and it can also pick up from HT leads, so no great drama there either
• oil pressure gauge - currently runs directly off the engine sensor which I could do without if necessary ( don't know if the ECU will or won't provide that)

Crank sensor I think is included in that loom picture

!!! I'd forgotten about the fan !!! The pinto uses a mechanical fan, so I guess I'll have to fit an electric one in place of it.

I know we're getting into probably the wrong thread here, but I think the mechanical considerations are:

• fit RWD sump
• fit RWD water system so the zetec fits around the bulk head (or so I've heard)
• Fan!!
• High pressure fuel pump
• Return pipe for fuel back to swirl pot

We're talking the same language now!

In response to your comments, that's why I'll probably keep the looms fairly separate. Stalks, switches etc can just run off the existing loom which I know intimately. 

It did come with a starter motor and alternator yes. You're probably right, it won't fit in the car, but for the minute I'm content to get it running on the bench. 

Yes, I do have  wires for the starter motor which I used on the pint (I actually have a duplicate loom that matches the car). So I can literally push 12v direct to the starter? It's not controlled by the ECU or anything?

Yes, the new zetec is fuel injection. Came with injectors, rail, ECU etc.

I foresaw this coming and  fitted a low pressure lift pump to the tank which goes to a swirl pot which the old pinto mechanical pump pulls to the current carb. I was planning to purchase the high pressure pump to eventually complete that feed in the car, but to get it running on the bench I was going to literally just get a high pressure pump and feed it from a gerry can on the bench. So I just need to work out the wire for the relay from the ECU to start the high pressure pump I guess. Presumably, because my current low pressure pump and swirl pot when running as a return pipe to the fuel tank, so when the swirl pot is full it just returns it to the tank. It would be nice to have that on the same circuit as the high pressure pump but not necessarily necessary. It just works off a switch. 

Do I need the dash connect to the loom? It's a fairly simple set up. Mechanical speedo, independent indicators etc. 

6 minutes ago, nelmo said:

A real snakes nest of an issue and not easy to answer. Is that just the engine loom you need or the full loom?

You have 3 options, in order of cost and reverse order of difficulty (easiest and most-expensive first):

1. Buy a new, custom-made loom from elsewhere.

2. Make a new loom yourself.

3. Try re-use that one.

If you're not too confident with electrics, I'd strongly recommend option 1 - it will save you a lot of time and hair-pulling in the long-run, if not your bank balance.

Personally, I started with the main loom from GBS and made my own engine and dash sub-looms - details in my blog (link in my sig below).

Thank you. I should have been more precise. 

Last year I spent a fair amount of time getting a new loom into the car. All the electrics around the car work fairly well and it's all reasonably tidy. So as far as the main loom is concerned I'm good with that. I could in theory run totally independent. 

To make the old pinto go, I had switched live to the starter and live to the coil. 

Now I've got this new zetec on a bench I'm trying to figure out what is needed to make it start! The guy I bought the Zetec off pulled as much of the loom out the focus as he could. It looks like I have all the connectors to each of the sensors which all seem to go back to the ECU. The bit I'm trying to figure out is what would go to ignition to make it start.. if it's that simple?

When you say buy a new loom, that's an option,  but not sure what I'd be buying.

Nice blog by the way, I think if I understand what I'm look at, I should be concentrating here https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qSkMseLxQcnvG1as5gIWqz0DjyEGTd2y/view

I’ve got myself a zetec engine from a donor focus to replace my pinto. 
 

the engine is one thing, but I don’t really know when to start with wiring to get it to run. I’ll paste a link below to what I have. Any hints very welcome! 
https://youtube.com/shorts/KzbGnHL93Pg

Ha. I guess I should have asked earlier. Twice lol. I spent most of last year putting in a new stack pipe and sender  in the tank. 
 

Then last week I bought a swirl pot and cylindrical facet lifter pump.  
 

I was just curious to see how people had these set up and mounted. 
 

im playing with the idea of securing a piece of sheet metal of the tank, then mounting the pot and swirl tank there.
 

the only other question I have I think around this is the swirl pot came with various size tail connectors. If the pipe that goes to the front pump is only an 8mm anyway, presumably no reason why I can’t step down to that.  

I'm on my journey to fitting high pressure fuel to the car and my first stage is to get a swirl pot and facet cylindrical pump in the boot. Does have anyone have any photos with ideas of how this can be done?

Do you know if this fits the various versions of the Robin Hood?

I think I've probably found my answer.

Fuel tank in the back - > low pressure electric pump -> swirl pot -> mechanical fuel pump in the front -> Carb

Then when I'm ready to  switch to EFI,  replace the front mechanical pump with a high pressure electric pump.

Is that how its done?

ok, so it looks like if I'm going down the efi route, I'll need to get the option of high pressure electric fuel pump as a start at least.

If this is correct, I currently have low pressure fuel on a mechanical pump, I'd need to replace that with an electric fuel pump, and a swirl pot?  If I'm doing this in stages, is to possible to have a switchable fuel pump to keep it at low pressure whilst I'm on my weber carb and then switch it to high when I'm ready for injection? Or is this exactly the job of a regulator?

1 hour ago, theduck said:

Very popular conversion elsewhere in the world and starting to become more popular here.  Not aware of any pinto specific guides, not ones in english anyway, but it is much like turboing any engine, so any generic guide will steer you in the right direction.  Happy to answer any questions you'd have too.  Basic requirements are:

Turbo Manifold (None off the shelf, but cheap to get made)
Turbo (I like TD04-13t and TF035 from Subaru imprezas and legacys etc)
Downpipe (exhaust)
Some kind of chargecooling, either air to air intercooler (ideal for low budget) or a water to air chargecooler (better for packaging)

Then it comes down to carb or efi.  Personally I'd go efi, its just all round better, so for that you will need
EFI fuel pump - either in tank or external
EFI fuel pressure regulator
EFI inlet manifold - pinto came with efi in later sierras etc and they are easy to get and ideal.  Can use the idle control valve, throttle body and fuel rail too.
Decent size Injectors - 300cc+
Mappable ecu - There so many options, best bet is pick a tuner and go with their recommendation.

That setup will quite happily run 200bhp on an otherwise stock pinto,  beyond that you are getting into a full engine build.
 

So it sounds like I could do this in two halve. Looking at EFI, if I look through the Burton power catalogue, what am I looking at? Something like those omex kits? They look pricey! or are you suggesting using an original Sierra EFI?

1 hour ago, theduck said:

Best bang for your buck on a pinto is boost.  Supercharger or turbocharger running 10-12psi, and a suitable carb (renault 5gtt) or efi setup and you will have a really nice streetable setup producing in the region of 200bhp and similar lbft of torque.  And if you are careful, its possible to do the whole turbo and efi conversion for less than the cost of a decent carb and cam kit.

What? I had no idea this was possible. Are there guides anywhere? 

I am really tempted and lucky enough have some cash in my pocket. 
 

my kids keep telling me to just put in a zetec or all sorts of crazy ideas.  The eldest one is 21 and knows it all lol. I’d love to pick up an old zetec and swap it out, but I’m real nervous I’ll get in over the skill level and go from having a car that works to one that does not.

I am slightly nervous about pouring money into the pinto in case the bottom half doesn’t hold up.   

Well, three years ago I new nothing. Now I still don’t know much but I have completely rewired it, cam belt change, new coil, dizzy and electronic ignition, timing tinkery and I’m doing ok lol. 

So you think the cam change is within a novice’s capability? 

30 minutes ago, Thrashed said:

I had good results from an FR32 cam, bike carbs, 3 angle value seats and a ported head. Also a good rolling road session to bring it all together!

That’s interesting. So I have a new 32/36 carb, but I was thinking of swapping it out for the more expensive Weber’s, but that was mostly based on the thought that I could easily swap it out myself. 
 

I was looking at the same cam swap also, did you fit it yourself or get a garage to do it? 

I’ll be interested in this. I have a dgv and get a similar issue. I know where the idle port is on the carb and am convinced it only runs once the progression ports are exposed, never with just the idle circuit. Convinced, there was a blockage, I’ve taken it off, drenched it in carb cleaner, blown air through it etc etc.