Nearly Killed Please Help!

[Guest riber3]

Hi there,

 

I went to collect my Rh 2b from a very reputable garage who built the car for me however I only managed to get 10 miles down the road and the whole front end of the car flew up and crushed me into the cockpit.

 

The wet weather gear was on and probably acted as a brake and helped save me. I feel very lucky and thankfully no other cars were around when this happened.

 

All the bonnet clips were in locked in place by the garage and I never touched them especially as I was told I could not access under the hood whilst the wet weather gear was on and I was assured everything was ok.

 

In fact my only worry was the spongyness of my brake pedal which I called the garage about when I stopped for petrol.

 

The garage say they have carried out a load test on the locking clips and say that they went up to 3 tons and they did not break

 

Can anyone explain how this could have happened and what can be done to prevent it happening to anyone else as I am in a lot pain from my injuries and would not want anyone else to suffer.

 

Personally I think the problem could be down to panel strength and aerodynamics? My speed at the time was just coming up to 60 when this occured

 

Any help or advice would be most welcome

[Grizzly]

OMG!

Can you supply any photos and describe a bit more fully exactly what happened?

Pics of what you believe may have given way may help.

[Guest timswait]

The Gator bonnets have come open occasionally like this, but it's always been because people have forgotten to do the clips up properly (Bill!! ). It's an SVA requirement that the bonnet must be securely fastened, I had to modify my clips to make the inspector happy.

What has actually failed on yours to make it open? Was it the simple over centre latches that RH supply? These aren't very positive but can be modified to take R Clips (what I had to do to satisfy SVA), instructions are on the site somewhere, possibly NW hoodies. Did you also have the Sierra bonnet latch as a back up?

[Guest riber3]

Sadly I don't have any pictures as after being helped out of the car I was carted away in an ambulance!!

 

If I had been a bit more alert I would have gotten the people who helped me out to take some photos

 

All I can say is that the lifting started from the drivers side and the whole lot lifted up forcing the windscreen into my chest and trapping me The clips were supplied from RH and were still in the locked down position after the accident

 

It also had the sierra bonnet latch underneath the front.

 

I still think that air pressure over the front end pushed the bonnet down and backjust enough to force the crocodile front up.

 

My other reason for thinking this is because when I tested the wipers I noticed the bonnet flexing in time to the wiper movement which I didn't think was too good?

 

But I would be grateful for any other thoughts and help

[enforcer]

No way this should have happened.

 

The croc bonnet it perfectly safe provided proper provision has been made for a 2 tier locking system. Mine uses a fiesta bonnet lock which is cable-released, but I also use the rubber bonnet catches as a failsafe. There is no reason really why either of these should fail, let alone both simultaneously.

 

You need to get some photos of the car - was this recovered to a local garage? It would help to post us some photos, but your insurers will want some.

 

It would seem that there is a liability issue with the garage who built the car for you. It would be interesting to know what there position is on this.

 

I hope you're ok and not too shaken by this - more info please as soon as you can!

[Grizzly]

I agree with Rich.

The Sierra safety locking mechanism should be more than enough to hold the bonnet down even if everything else failed. That's exectly what it's for. I'd be banging on the door of the Garage - They've let you down badly here and cast a cloud over Kit Cars in general.

[Guest Guy]

I noticed on mine that I could lock the rubber catches and all was good but when I was driving, the vibration and movement moved the bonnet and the clips would come un-fastend. I solved the problem by careful positioning of the clips and I also fitted a safety catch under the front with a massive R clip.

 

Bonnets coming open on the RH is a known problem, usually because people forget to do the clips up but positioning of the clips is also important. As said before, the SVA usually requires a secondary catch.

 

I never liked the alligator bonnet idea, lots of people have made them hinge from the front to reduce the risk.

[Guest peter2b2002]

as a double safety measure i made an over bonnet strap like the old cars out of biothane webbing, i use the same stuff to make bridles and harness for horses, breaking strain about 2 tons

pete2b

[enforcer]

Paul I don't think the flexing of the bonnet when the wipers were on is an issue. Depending on which system they have used, the bonnet is still fairly flimsy and you may notice a bit of movement.

 

When did the garage tell you they did a 3 ton pull-test on the bonnet locks? This sounds a bit sus to me....

[Longboarder]

It's not realy about aerodynamics. Nearly all cars are designed so that when they are driven high air pressure is created in front of the radiator. This air flows through the radiator and into the under bonnet area. Once there it must be at higher pressure than the sourrounding ambient so that it escapes to allow more air flow through the radiator for cooling. The faster you go the greater the pressure under the bonnet and eventualy a force greater than the weight of the bonnet will be exerted and the bonnet will try to lift. At this point the force lifting the bonnet is equal to the weight of the bonnet plus a few pounds. Even faster and this lifting force increases further but is never going to exceed the weight of the front half of the car (about 500kg) otherwise the front of the car would rise off the ground. Plenty of RH owners can testify that this does not happen at 100+mph. So restraint is not about resisting huge forces. It's about correctly resisting relatively small forces. The catches wont get more than double figures in kilos while the bonnet is still down. Once the securing mechanisms have failed and the bonnet rises into the passing airstream the force will rocket up hugely but this is only after the catches have stopped doing their job.

The catches must remain secure when their two parts are moving relative to each other. This is a severe test for any catch and most builders fit some sort of locking mechanism to prevent a catch springing open. There should be a further failsafe, like the sprung hook on a tin top bonnet which is completely automatic and thus cannot be forgotten. I suspect this has not happened with your builder or has failed to operate.

A kit car is not a proposition for any garage, however excellent, which does not have experience of kit car building and specific experience of the marque. This website has several entries on this potential problem, and several reports of resulting incidents. You hear the same story on websites for other makes of kit car.

Owning and driving a kitcar is not like owning a tintop. You need to understand the car and get to know it.

The load test on the bonnet clips is irrelevant. I doubt if they have failed structuraly. They have simply failed to do their job. Careful examination of the build and the clip fitment is needed to find out why. Ditto for the secondary device. (Is there one?). Panel strength is what it is. The builder has to assess these things and the effect they may have on securing clips and build accordingly.

 

Nigel

[Guest riber3]

Hi all,

 

The test was done apparently yesterday using a 3 ton lift. How they configured the test they didn't say.

 

In their words quote from the email they sent me:

 

"We have now evaluated the car from all aspects of the bonnet fixings and clamps and cannot see how, what has happened, did occur.

 

We have put the bonnet under load yesterday with all 3 locks in place. This was done using the 3 ton hydraulic lift and we could not get the clamps to let go? It just lifted the vehicle although we had it tethered."

 

I find this a little difficult to believe as how could have they have twisted the bonnet back into place? or did they just use the catches?

 

Theya also stated they are going to fit a secondary restraint of some description? not quite sure what are intending just yet but will let you know.

 

As for the gentleman with the bonnet strap good idea (nice car by the way) and revesring the hinges also another good idea.

 

However Guy mentioned that vibration and movement caused his boonet to open and made some adjustments to counteract the problem.

 

Perhaps thats was part of the problem, wind, vibration and movement and maybe the catches in the wrong place?

 

I have attached a pre accident picture its the only one I've got!!!

 

I am still a bit shaky thanks for asking by the way and suffering a lot of pain from all the bruises just lucky that my sternum and ribs were not broken!!!

[Guest john]

Hi, and i'm really sorry to hear of your accident. Like others have said, I hope you soon recover from the injuries.

From your picture I can see one clip. Is it the black rubber type ?

One each side makes two, so where is the third one that the garage mention in their test ?

 

I'm always aware of the extra loading that the tension in the wet weather gear is applying to the top of the windscreen, adding to the load on the clips. But I have two sierra safety catches on mine, as well as four of the external black rubber type clips.

Can you try and get some more pics so we can help diagnose this ?

[Guest Bazwaz]

Hi Paul

That must have been terrifying! I know it's no consolation but i shudder to think what would have happened if you'd been on a busy motorway. Best wishes for a speedy recovery and i hope everything gets sorted okay.

Barry

[Guest robinj66]

Very sorry to hear of your accident.

 

Seems to me that the wet weather gear may have had something to do with this - I know from my Cobra that there are tremendous forces on the hood which tends to try and act a bit like a sail. This would undoubtedly increase the forces on your bonnet catches over and above what might normally be expected.

from normal driving.

 

Don't get me wrong, I still think that the catches ought to have withstood such forces but if they weren't correctly positioned or had not been properly fastened before the car was returned to you then the hood may be the answer.

[Guest SEgan]

You hear the same story on websites for other makes of kit car.

Owning and driving a kitcar is not like owning a tintop.

Nigel

 

 

This problem is not unique to Kit cars look at all the problems with the Renault Clio! I also had the same thing happen a number of years ago on the M1 when driving a 2CV. In that case it was the draft from a wagon that I was overtaking got underneath the bonnet and lifted it off it's catch, it was that experience that made me decide to hinge my bonnet from a separate frame in the nose cone.

 

If all points covered by Richard on the build video are followed (relating to stiffening and the use of the Sierra catch) I fail to see how the bonnet can lift. The garage will undoubtedly try to blame the design but in my opinion they must be at fault and it was them who supplied the 'finished' product to you.

 

I am sorry hear about your accident I would like to wish you a speedy recovery.

 

Sean

Edited February 22, 2007 by SEgan