Poor Running

[Jamiep]

Hi all, latest problem

After giving the car a service I gave it a run out yesterday and it felt poorly! It fired up the best it ever has and idled really well without stalling for a change, but when driving was making a noise similar to rattling a spray can and would splutter if I tried to accelerate out of a constant speed, ie doing 30mph and try to accelerate to 40, it didn't do it from a standing start though. is this 'pinking'?

 

Now this may not be connected to my problem but thought I'd mention it just in case.

 

When I changed the HT leads the other week I noticed No.4 plug was loose. Retightened best I could as it is right in line with the brake servo, then checked the other which where all tight. Just been to investigate the poor running I had yesterday and discovered plug 2 was loose? so took them all out to look at them and discovered they are oily.

 

Bit of history and spec of the car:

2ltr pinto SOHC with 205 block and running on carb (not sure which type)

I bought the car this summer after it had sat in a friends garage for about 3 years untouched, sailed through its MOT without a hitch.

Before that it was rarely driven due to the owners’ illness.

I have found a receipt from 19/8/02 for full recon engine plus gaskets from a local engine company but doesn't mention if its ever had the head converted to unleaded!

The car was run on unleaded by the previous owner and I've been running on BP ultimate until the last couple of tanks due to it being unavailable.

 

It’s probably something really simple.....or its going to cost me shed loads!

 

Help please.

 

Regards,

 

Jamie

[agent_zed]

Hi,

i'd always start simple and go from there. It could possibly be your leads are breaking down or the coil. When you put the engine under load (when accelerating) poor leads or a coil will get worse and cause it to stutter. Although it could also be timing, if you have a stobe you can check that pretty easily to rule that out.

 

My dads transit (2ltr pinto) was running badly the other day so i gapped the plugs checked the leads and found that the ends of the leads into the dissy cap were corroded so brushed then off with a wire brush and expanded the fitting a little so they were a tighter fit and its back to full health. cost me nothing.

 

If you havn't changed them then you could buy a new rotor arm(£4-5) new dissy cap (£8-10) and possibly leads. If that doesn't help then a new coil (£10-15) and leads (£15)

change/buy one bit at a time though so you can see which bit is the problem, but i'd check everything is clean and secure first.

 

hth

[Guest Noddy006]

Hi all, latest problem

After giving the car a service I gave it a run out yesterday and it felt poorly! It fired up the best it ever has and idled really well without stalling for a change, but when driving was making a noise similar to rattling a spray can and would splutter if I tried to accelerate out of a constant speed, ie doing 30mph and try to accelerate to 40, it didn't do it from a standing start though. is this 'pinking'?

 

Now this may not be connected to my problem but thought I'd mention it just in case.

 

When I changed the HT leads the other week I noticed No.4 plug was loose. Retightened best I could as it is right in line with the brake servo, then checked the other which where all tight. Just been to investigate the poor running I had yesterday and discovered plug 2 was loose? so took them all out to look at them and discovered they are oily.

 

Bit of history and spec of the car:

2ltr pinto SOHC with 205 block and running on carb (not sure which type)

I bought the car this summer after it had sat in a friends garage for about 3 years untouched, sailed through its MOT without a hitch.

Before that it was rarely driven due to the owners’ illness.

I have found a receipt from 19/8/02 for full recon engine plus gaskets from a local engine company but doesn't mention if its ever had the head converted to unleaded!

The car was run on unleaded by the previous owner and I've been running on BP ultimate until the last couple of tanks due to it being unavailable.

 

It’s probably something really simple.....or its going to cost me shed loads!

 

Help please.

 

Regards,

 

Jamie

 

Hi Jamie

I am no expert so just some thoughts.

 

Pinking happens when the timing is out so have you done anything that could change the timing - Moved distributor or changed timing belt during service?

The mis-fire during acceleration sounds like timing or fuel problem. If you have changed plug leads have you accidently got them in the wrong sequence? Pinto 1,3,4,2

Does the car blow blue smoke or black smoke from the exhaust - If black it is likely to be fuel and if the car hasn't been used much over the last few years is the float stuck or may be one of the jets in the carb blocked. is choke stuck on? etc. Unless the plugs are really oily I would not think it would affect running too much compared to previous running. If they are really wet (possible over fuelling) that can affect running. usually causes black sooty deposits if running rich.

 

If it seems like an oil problem possible cause could be just wrong grade (too thin).

 

Just gut feeling but if it was me I would check carb first.

HTH

 

Ian H

[Guest chris brown]

First check the timing I suspect pinking (over advanced) set it to 8 degrees advance at tick over for a start.

Do checks previous two posters suggest. If still no progress then:-

Try to determine if the head is an unleaded or leaded - most but not all 205 blocks were fitted with unleaded heads. There is a letter on the head near number 4 plug that indicates which head it is (I can’t find the codes at the moment but with a bit of luck someone else will - How many miles has the engine done on unleaded fuel? Even a leaded head should do 20K or so with no problem. If in doubt check the tappets if they have closed up then it could be valve problems.

[Jamiep]

thanks for the replies, first off the plugs, cap, arm and leads (magnecor) are all new within the last couple of weeks, also flushed and changed the oil although now its mentioned I used a different grade (5w30) to that I've just looked up (10w30 to 20w50 or 10w40) as I was told it was fine for winter use I think he said maybe should have checked that story first.

could this be the cause of the oily plugs assuming it must be too thin

 

As for timing I don't have a strobe so not sure if could really check easily although I've seen one in halfords for £40 Halfords link are they any good?

 

The car doesn't smoke when stood still but cant really see a lot when running as I've been driving with wet gear on might try a (very) cold run tomorrow, probably on the way to get some more oil

 

If it is unsuitable oil will it have caused any damage, I've done maybe 30 miles over a couple of outings if that?

 

edit: just looked back through old MOT's and the cars done less the 2k miles from 2002 until I got it in May 09, I've done 1k at most.

[Guest steveyb]

Have the plugs been changed for correct type (heat range)?

Oily plugs would usually indicate either worn valve stem oil seals or perhaps blocked crankcase breather, could even be head gasket (oil feed leak to cylinder), this would also usually show as blue smoke from exhaust, but if all the plugs are oily I would check the crankcase breather first.

Rattling noise could be tappets, have you listened to the tappets using a long bladed screw driver, pressing blade end against the base of rocker cover with ear pressed on handle, moving it along should pinpoint a loose tappet.

 

used a different grade (5w30)

 

Ordinary mineral oil (not synthetic)?

Also try revving it while stationary and check for smoke.

Edited January 30, 2010 by SteveyB

[agent_zed]

Hi i use 20w50 which a lot of people recommend for the pinto as its an old engine design with big oil ways not like the high performance engines of today. I did go to buy oil though and they looked it up and the book said 5w30 but even the chap at the shop looked quizical at that and i bought 20w50.

 

Another thought i had was i once had a blocked carb jet on the secondary venturi. Since this only opens under load if i accelerated hard the sencond venturi would open and as the jet was blocked only put more air in diluting the overall mixture causing it to stutter until i backed off and it closed.

 

hth

[Guest chris brown]

I would suggest 5W30 is too thin for a Pinto 10w40 is the lowest to go as the engine was designed to use 20W50 which is getting harder to fine these days

[Jamiep]

Still having problems with the engine, I changed oil again to 20w50 mineral as suggested, changed plugs/ leads cap etc one at a time using the old ones which I have kept hold of and the car ran better with all the new stuff but the pinking (or what sounds like pinking) is still there. I've checked timing and tried tuning by ear but it made no difference. finally bit the bullet and took off the rocker cover after suggestion that it may be tappets, but they where all spot on! at .2mm inlet and .25mm exhaust and the cam looks new.

 

One thing I not sure of, should I be able to turn the engine by hand easily with the plugs in? I was under the impression it would be very difficult.

Also I get hissing from cylinders 3,4 when exhaust valves open but not 1,2 when turning by hand, could this mean little/no compression ie head gasket failure?

 

Final info for you.

After working on the cay in daylight I noticed this:

the photo above is taken looking in through the spark plug hole at the top of the cylinder, it looks very sooty. could this be overheating and causing pre-ignition?

[Snapperpaul]

Burning oil or overfuelling can cause sooty pistons.

Carbon on the pistons is usually the cause of running on after you switch of the ignition, it will probably cause pinking if the carbon is glowing, pre igniting the mixture before the spark has.

Worth running some RedeX through (watch the smoke) to ease the problem.

If the head gasket had failed you would get white smoke.

Always worth a compression test, you will soon see if the rings have given up.

Have a look through all the spark plug holes to see if all the pistons are black.

If oil gets past the valve stem oil seals you can burn oil.

[Jamiep]

Thanks for that, the car doesn't smoke which is why I thought it was running lean rather then over fueling to start with causing pinking and I was getting 30+ mpg which was better then my 2.0t Audi the oil level never seamed to change although it appears I used the wrong stuff for a couple hundred miles. All the cylinders are the same.

Judging by the cam the engine internals look in good nick after a refurb in 02 with very little miles done since then.

Is Redex similar to 10K boost? As I have used that to good effect on rovers in the past but they was injected.

 

Only problem I have now is putting half the car back together to run again as I had to strip rad and cooling pipes off to get to bottom pulley bolt to turn the cam.

 

As I need a new rocker cover gasket (last one appeared glued in place with sealant) is it best to get single one or full set are there any to avoid as known duffers?

 

Would having a 1.6 carb and manifold cause any issues on a 2l as the one I have is 28/30 DFTH 2A01 which Haynes says is for 1.6?

 

Thanks for the help, I'm learning all the time