Wing Mirrors

[Snapperpaul]

The original poster said he can only see the rear arches with the wing mirrors!

Therefore they are to low and or don't have enough extension in the mounting arms.

This is the place to start, you need to see behind, sit in the car with a mate holding the now detached mirrors until a rough place for rear vision can be found, then work on how you are going to mount the mirrors.

Make sure the mirror area is large enough to pass IVA.

[fry61]

Posted opinions tend to go like the 4 word story ----- OFF ON A TANGENT

[Guest Alan_builder]

My copying of IVA manual section 8 Indirect vision.

 

Then we have the and ifs and buts

 

Note 3: The interior mirror must......if the interior rear-view mirror does not provide any rearward vision its presence shall not be required.

 

 

Now does that support or defeat my earlier post???

 

To read the black and white facts in section 8 rearward vision see IVA manual

 

Extract below

 

Method of Inspection

 

................ ...........................

 

Note 1: All obligatory mirrors fitted to the vehicle are as follows

 

 

1. One interior mirror of Class I

2. One exterior mirror on the offside of Class III or Class II.

 

 

Note 2: These dimensions are the minimum requirements of the reflective surface and not the overall size of the mirror assembly.

Note 3: The interior mirror must be positioned as far as is practical to afford the best possible view to the rear, if the interior rear-view mirror does not provide any rearward vision its presence shall not be required.

Note 4: All mirrors must be attached by a method normally used by a major manufacturer, mirrors attached by suction are not permitted.

Note 5: If the vehicle has a rear view window fitted which is less then 70% light transmittance (marked with a V) a nearside exterior mirror is required.

Note 6: If fitted, an optional nearside mirror may supplement the field of view requirements of the obligatory mirrors

 

Required Standard

 

1.

The vehicle must have an offside exterior mirror fitted.

2.

An interior mirror must be fitted, (see note 3)

3.

The vehicle must have an nearside exterior mirror fitted (if the interior rear view mirror gives no view to the rear or the rear window is less than 70% light transmittance) (see note 3 & 5)

4.

All obligatory mirrors must be securely mounted to the vehicle, to ensure that the field of view does not change. (see note 4)

5.

All mirrors must be adjustable.

6.

Obligatory mirrors must be mounted so as to prevent the driver misinterpreting the image because of vibration.

7.

All mirrors must have an acceptable approval marking or have equivalent characteristics to a mirror approved for use on a vehicle of the same category as follows:



The reflective surface must be encased in a protective housing



surfaces contactable by a 165mm sphere (interior) or a 100mm sphere (exterior) must have a radius of curvature of at least 2.5mm – except for fixing holes or recesses less than 12mm wide, which must be blunted

 

 

8. An interior mirror must be a minimum of 40mm high by 80mm long

(see note 2 & figure 1)

9.

An exterior mirror must be a minimum of 40mm high and 70mm long, and be able to incorporate a measurement parallel to the height of the rectangle at least 70mm in length within the lens. (see note 2 & figure 1)

10.

The interior mirror must be adjustable from the normal driving position.

11.

The obligatory offside mirror fitted to a vehicle with a right hand or central driving position must be adjustable from the driving seat. Alternatively, if knocked out of alignment, it must be capable of being returned to its former position without the need for adjustment.

12.

An obligatory mirror must provide the required field of view (see Annex 1 and note 6).

 

So the following is an opinion

 

 

Sorry Bob, I think that defeats you. You only don't need a central mirror if you cant position it to give you any any rearward vision. So If one doesn't want to fit a rear view mirror fit an obstruction, a lump of board for instance, but it must be IVA compliant.

 

Where I have posted text from the IVA manual I don't think that is an opinion, where I have interpreted the manual that is an opinion. In my post #6 from note 1 it is only an extract from the IVA manual as above.

 

While you only need a center and off side mirrors, for looks and to detect the silly sod overtaking up the inside fit the nearside mirror.

 

My post #2 was written as a report on how the inspector will test the rear vision on your car, that can be reverse engineered into a fitment method. Yes my reminder to fit a central mirror is my opinion that the the IVA manual needs one to be fitted but as the central mirror is the first obligatory mirror to be named I think my opinion is correct.

 

 

[fry61]

On 16th February 2011 at Southampton Test Centre to Florin 2B a first time pass & commendation on quality of build.

 

Getting it right at the exam is what counts, can of worms closed.

[Guest Alan_builder]

Sorry Alan:

 

My Zero went through and passed IVA with no screen and no "interior" mirror.

The car was built by GBS, who took it for IVA.

 

I wonder, and it does sound silly, if "interior", which is the description used throughout, in the IVA Manual, is an undefinable location for a screenless car!

 

That's another can of worms opened!

 

No need to be sorry Stuart, you got a pass while Pierre got a fail, both no screen fitted. Conclusion one Tester was wrong?

 

 

What is important, telling some one no mirror is needed and then they get a single fail due to your advice. They might ask you for the £90 for a retest.

 

The IVA manual is the bible and one should present their car to conform to it. It doesn't matter who or how well the car is constructed its what it says in the IVA manual that counts. No one can go back to IVA and say Stuart got a pass without an internal mirror and get a pass or a free retest. We must build to the IVA manual, not make cars like one which have a pass form a single inspector who may have erred.

 

Interesting thought on "interior". I suspect if one asked VOSA they would say the IVA manual classes the cockpit as interior. so if you don't mount the interior mirror on the external bonnet it would need a longer mount to reach the tunnel. But NOTE 3 says you have to mount the internal mirror to get the best possible view and if that is on the outside of the car and not in the interior, so be it?.

 

You want to open a can of worms? Section 8 is Indirect Vision, so use a set of cameras and screens and you still have to fit an inside mirror and an offside mirror! Pooh!

 

Alan

 

 

[Guest Kennedy48]

Fit 3 mirrors. Two out side one inside and make sure you can see behind you. End of arguement

luke

[Guest The Modfather]

Fit 3 mirrors. Two out side one inside and make sure you can see behind you. End of arguement

luke

 

It's a lot easier than reading the daft manual I'd say!

[Guest Alan_builder]

Hi Stuart,

 

 

 

Al,

I have looked for where I gave advice, and cannot find it.

 

 

 

Surely if you contribute to a post requesting advice you are giving advice?

 

The history of the post is a guy asking for advice. I said don't forget to fit a central mirror. Bob seemed to contradict that, and your post seems to support Bobs view. Its not what you, Bob or I think about our posts, its how the guy who wants the advice thinks its meant!

 

 

 

 

I don't hold the IVA manual in high regard, I was and am trying to focus builders en-devours to comply with the manual as that is the legal document by which their build is judged.

 

 

I agree the clarity of the manual is poor. That is why I try to help in my modest way.

 

 

 

 

Methinks you are taking my question of the definition of interior, too seriously.

Perhaps I should question the seriousness of your proposed obstructon, in that however you design such a blockage of view, a tower or bracket could equally be designed to see over or round it!

 

Stewart

 

P.S. cans of worms can be fun!

 

Guilty as charged, but surely the correct place for this is in chit chat not in reply to a request for advice?

 

 

 

[fry61]

And thought I had conceded the point back at post No.5!!!!! Ahh well wood & trees;wood & trees; or smoke & mirrors.

[Guest Alan_builder]

And thought I had conceded the point back at post No.5!!!!! Ahh well wood & trees;wood & trees; or smoke & mirrors.

 

Hi Bob,

 

 

As you say wood and trees, I didn't read your reply No 5 until just now. I think I was midst my reply No 6.