4 Speed To 5 Speed

[Guest The Modfather]

Having just bought my first kit car (previously built) I am wondering if I can change the gearbox from 4 to 5 speed? It has a 2.0 ltr SOHC pinto. Do I need to change bellhousings/mounts/prop etc, or is it a straight swap?

 

Regards

Darren

[Guest Ian & Carole]

Dareen

 

Box 5 speed will bolt straight on to your engine using your bell housing.

 

5 speed is longer so you will need a shorter prop shaft.

[Guest The Modfather]

Dareen

 

Box 5 speed will bolt straight on to your engine using your bell housing.

 

5 speed is longer so you will need a shorter prop shaft.

 

Ian, I don't suppose you know the model number of the gearbox do you, and is the prop "standard" so I don't need to have one made up?

Sorry for all these questions

 

Darren

[ibrooks]

The box you are looking for is a type-9. They were fitted to Sierras, Granadas late Cortinas and I think Transits (although Transits had a different gearchange linkage so aren't a straight swap). You need to get one from a 4-cylinder car as there was also a V6 version which is mostly the same but with a different bell-housing and longer input shaft so it won't fit your engine easily. It was replaced later by the MT75 which is a stronger box but it's bulkier and probably won't fit in your car and you will have to do some serious work to a Pinto for it to find the limits of a type-9.

 

Props were probably standard when the kit was built i.e. you told Robin Hood Engineering whether you wanted a 4-speed or 5-speed prop in your kit. Whether GBSC in it's current form has the data and could/would make one for you or not is one you would have to ask them. There are however many places that will make up props and the combination on a Robin Hood is going to be a common one so if you tell them what the axle and box are and how far apart the nose of the diff and output shaft of the gearbox are they should be able to knock one up in no time for sensible money. There were relatively recent posts where people had got replacement props due to failures of the ones seemingly supplied by one of the incarnations between RHE and GBSC (the consensus was that they had used some cheap tube to make them that wasn't up to the job if you were running anything more than standard Pinto power). No doubt there will be some recommendations for prop companies and guesstimate prices in there.

 

Iain

[Guest RichardO]

I swapped to a type 9 (Sierra) from a type 3 (Cortina, 4 speed) the other year.

 

The type 9 is about the same size as the type 3, new mounting points were required but the stick is in roughly the same place.

The output shaft is bigger on the type 9 so a new prop will be required.

Possibly a new starter motor, I went from inertia to pre-engaged but that was more because of swapping the flywheel and a different bell housing.

Might as well stick a new clutch on whilst the engine is out.

 

A worthwhile swap for the 5th gear, but 1st could do with being a longer.

 

Rich...

[Guest The Modfather]

I swapped to a type 9 (Sierra) from a type 3 (Cortina, 4 speed) the other year.

 

The type 9 is about the same size as the type 3, new mounting points were required but the stick is in roughly the same place.

The output shaft is bigger on the type 9 so a new prop will be required.

Possibly a new starter motor, I went from inertia to pre-engaged but that was more because of swapping the flywheel and a different bell housing.

Might as well stick a new clutch on whilst the engine is out.

 

A worthwhile swap for the 5th gear, but 1st could do with being a longer.

 

Rich...

 

Thanks guys so far.

Rich, why did you swap the starter? What engine did/do you have to cause all that change?

 

Iain, the problem I can see is that not knowing what Sierra my running gear came from could cause me a headache. I assume that along with differing gearboxes, they also had different diffs?????

 

I guess the fun begins

[Bob Tucker]

Not as bad as you may think.

Diffs all had the same input flange even with different ratios.

All 5 speed boxes had identical output flanges, so the nose of the prop shaft will be from a standard Sierra setup.

Most prop manufacturers can supply all new parts, so dont worry about finding a second hand prop to cannibalise.

Try your prop shaft nose in the 5 speed box so you can take that to the prop guy as a template.

HTH Bob

[Guest RichardO]

Rich, why did you swap the starter? What engine did/do you have to cause all that change?

 

I orginally had an underpowered 1.6 pinto with a 4 speed type 3 box. As far as I know this was from the orignal '79 donor Cortina. I swapped the 1.6 for a rebuilt 2.0 but left the type 3 box. The original inertia type starter wouldn't fit the ringgear on the 2.0 flywheel, so I ended up with the 1.6 flywheel & smaller clutch on the 2.0.

 

This was OK for a while but I was never happy with the 2.0 power going into the small clutch, so when I had chance of a type 9 cheapish I jumped at the chance. So while putting the new box in the lightened flywheel & bigger clutch went on. Fortunately I had remembered about the ringgear and had picked up a pre-engaged starter before I started.

 

 

 

Rich...

[Guest The Modfather]

I orginally had an underpowered 1.6 pinto with a 4 speed type 3 box. As far as I know this was from the orignal '79 donor Cortina. I swapped the 1.6 for a rebuilt 2.0 but left the type 3 box. The original inertia type starter wouldn't fit the ringgear on the 2.0 flywheel, so I ended up with the 1.6 flywheel & smaller clutch on the 2.0.

 

This was OK for a while but I was never happy with the 2.0 power going into the small clutch, so when I had chance of a type 9 cheapish I jumped at the chance. So while putting the new box in the lightened flywheel & bigger clutch went on. Fortunately I had remembered about the ringgear and had picked up a pre-engaged starter before I started.

 

 

 

Rich...

 

So hopefully I'll have the correct starter etc because I have the 2.0ltr, and just need to change the box and shaft. I've spoken to a scraper and he says he has a type 9 for 80 quid, but I wouldn't know a type 3 from a type 9. Is it stamped accordingly,or part number which would identify it?

 

Darren

[Snapperpaul]

Get yourself a copy of the Burton Performance cataloge It has photos of all the boxes.

Main easy to see identifying feature is the rear ally tail housing.

Ford only did 3 x rear wheel drive 5 speed boxes, the Type 9, MT75 and the Cosworth T5 they all have 1" 23 spline input shafts as does the 4 speed Type E, the Type 3 box has a 7/8" 20 spline input.

On the S3 you will have to cut back the gearbox tunnel floor and use the rear gearbox mounting holes, you may have to modify or move back the gearbox support angle if fitted.

You could get a propshaft manufacturer to cut your own prop and shorten it and even put on the correct output shaft end if you need a different one.

I have fitted the 5 speed Type 9 V6 box to mine (S3a) and that is a little more complicated as i could only move the box back so far before it hit the tunnel and with the bell housing spacer required to make it fit a 4 cylinder engine i had to move the engine, engine mounts and engine bay sleds 30mm forwards, but i get a better 1st gear and a longer 2nd.

 

Just to add something else to the mix, the 4 speed box was known as the Rocket box and may have good ratios, Richard Stuart (Original Robin Hood Engineering owner) thought the 4 speed had better ratios than the 5 speed but of course no overdrive 5th.

[chris n]

Swap over from 4 speed to 5 speed a few years back.

A few photos of a type 9 box

 

 

The 5 speed box that will be going into the Eagle RV

 

 

Its a longer rear tail section on the 5 speed

 

 

The section of floor that needs to be cut away to fit the 5 speed (Rear view)

 

 

(front view)

[Guest The Modfather]

That is some great info Snapperpaul, thanks.

 

I have located a 5 speed type 9,but the chap says that my prop will fit without any mods. God knows how he knows, but obviously there is a chance that my box is the type E as you describe, and by what you say, the splines are the same. If its the type 3 then I will have to have it worked. Is there a difference in length between the type 9 and type E, or will i still need to have it shortened or lengthened? Also, is there any identifying marks to tell which one i've got?

 

Thanks again for the advice.

 

Darren

[Guest The Modfather]

Great pics Chris, thanks. The floor pan cutaway is defo great instruction. If you don't mind i'll try and cut n' paste them for future reference. I'm going to trawl some websites and see if there any that show the dfferent dimensions of the boxes etc.

Thanks again guys, the info really helpsand is very much appreciated.

 

Darren

[chris n]

If you don't mind i'll try and cut n' paste them for future reference.

 

Be my guest think I have a few more on my other laptop plus a photo of a 4 speed.

Will fire the old thing up a bit later on and have a look for you

[Guest The Modfather]

Be my guest think I have a few more on my other laptop plus a photo of a 4 speed.

Will fire the old thing up a bit later on and have a look for you

 

Thanks Chris.