Sierra Driveshafts: 100mm Push-in Style

[Guest ScotMac]

Hi, i have the torx style driveshafts, and my ZF differential appears to ONLY take the push-in style flanges.

 

Note, i *believe* i really only need the flanges (i assume i can hook them up to my torx style drive shafts), but if you have the entire drive shafts, and don't want to take off the flanges, that is fine also.

 

Thanks, -Scot

[Guest salty_monk]

Hi Scot,

 

The way I read this you mean you have driveshafts with Lobro joints on them & actually want some "push in" ones sending out? or perhaps vice versa?

 

Are you thinking you can disconnect them at the CV joints & add them onto yours? (when you say you only need the flanges)

 

I'd be a little careful as some of the driveshafts are different sizes (diameter). Wouldn't want you to pay a huge postage bill & then find out they are the wrong ones....

 

I may be a little confused ( as I think will others as we call things slightly different names to you...) as always a picture speaks a thousand words...

 

 

Dan:)

[Guest ScotMac]

Yes, i have the "lobro", and need the push-in style.

 

I have never seen the push-in ones, but i was reading on the locostbuilders site that i could combine the two. ie, that i could use the push-in style for just the flanges (ears), w/ the rest of the shaft being the "lobro" style. Here is the thread:

 

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=38990

[Guest ScotMac]

Here is where they say that you can combine the two (unless i am reading it wrong):

 

What you can do provided you get the right bits is use a lobro joint at one end of the shaft and a tripode (push in one) at the other end. This means you can still use rear drums. Firstly you need a diff that takes 100mm diameter lobro joints, I think all 7" non Cossie diffs were like this. You can fit 2 of its lobro joints in place of the inner push in joints on the driveshafts from a 2.0l drum braked Sierra. If you don't know what Sierra your push in shafts are from, the only way to tell is to remove one of the inner CV joints and count the number of splines on the actual driveshaft it was attached to. 25 splines and the Lobro will fit Its literally a direct replacement, pull one off and pop the other one on.

 

That should give you what you need, I think RichieC has a pic of a driveshaft he did like this somewhere.

[Guest ScotMac]

Note, the above is talking about doing the opposite from what i want to do. ie, they are trying to do the opposite, where they use the joint from the push-in on the outside (drum side) and the lobro on the inside (diff side) of the shaft.

[Snapperpaul]

Seems a lot of bother ( for you) just to make a plate diff fit. Would it not be a lot easier to source the sierra 7" LSD from a non cossie, plenty on ebay, and put your ZF back on ebay?

I want a push fit LSD but may have to bight the bullet and buy a whole axle, Lobros and discs.

Once you have the right LSD you can change the crown wheel and pinion to the desired ratio.

[Guest salty_monk]

See what you are saying, I guess it might work that way around, they are talking about splitting them at the CV joint as I thought.....

 

DOn't know if these pics will show you anything you didn't already know.... can see both ends of push in driveshafts in them...

 

 

Dan

[Guest elwe]

Could you go down a slightly different route and fit the flanges from a lobro type into a push in type diff using the C clips to secure them in place? Thus making your ZF diff a bolt on type.

[Guest ScotMac]

Tim, everything i have seen implies that the ZF is made for the push-in type. Also, like the quaife, it is a closed diff. W/ the closed diff's, you can't even get to the area of the diff where you would need to put on the c-clips....that is, w/out taking apart the internal differential mechanism (the closed part)...which can't be done when it is fitted.

 

Paul, nothing against the viscous stuff, but i believe a ZF is bit better for track/racing.

 

Dan, thanks for the pictures. So, how does the push-in style come apart? ie, at the CV joint??

 

Thanks, -sm

[Guest salty_monk]

There's just a circlip at the back where it joins the main shaft & then you can slide the whole joint off the splines if I remember correctly.....

 

Wonder if the short splined axle comes complete with a new CV joint?? prob not... if it did you could simply buy 2 new joints & get them sent over...

 

Dan

[Guest ScotMac]

Sounds like it may be fairly easy to do the hybrid. Now i just need those push-in (tri-pode) flanges!!! It seems like they are fairly readily available over there, no? Don't people often dump them when they go w/ disc brakes?

[Guest salty_monk]

Should be plenty of that type of driveshaft arround in the scrap yards yes... You may be able to pick up a set of Ebay.... or you can hope someone has a spare set kicking around....

 

Dan

[Guest ScotMac]

Dan, some of things that you have mentioned about the push-in/tri-pode style flanges peeked my interest...ie, generated another of my questions!!! ;-)

 

So, you are saying that the push-in flanges have the c-clip on the outside (CV area), instead of the inside of the case, like the lobro flanges, right? And you mentioned about the oil seals and the flange sliding out earlier, remember? Well, so how does the push-in flange stay in the differential, so that it maintains the oil seals, if it doesn't have the c-clip on the inside, like the torx/lobro style?? Just based on the length, and some type of friction system on the splines???

 

Thanks, -sm

[Guest salty_monk]

I'm kind of lost now....

 

 

This is what I understand:

 

1. You have an open diff & driveshafts with lobro joints on them from a "merkur".

 

2. You have a ZF diff which takes "push in" driveshafts, no lobro joints.

 

3. Driveshaft can be split at the CV joint & mated to the other type so Lobro type diffs can be swapped into "push in" type axles & drum brake sets. (this from your lolocost post).

 

4. Nobody seems to have done it the other way but it "should" be possible.

 

The way I see it you have a few choices:

 

1. Swap to viscous LSD. Buy one off Ebay or recon unit & have it shipped, it will work with your existing lobro shafts.

 

2. Buy some driveshafts & attempt the swap as 4 above. You may have to get a "reconditioning company" to send them to you. Maybe you can get simply the "push-in" splined shaft & CV joint complete (so just the diff end of the driveshaft) may save you some postage. If you get something shipped to a UK address I "may" be able to help you out by getting someone to box them up & send them over here.

 

3. Buy & ship a complete "push in" set from a car to use with your ZF diff incl push in hubs etc. If you want to use disks then ship some adapter plates as well as per http://nw.rhocar.org/reardiscs.htm

 

To use your ZF diff is seems to me you need to measure the "hole" where the shafts push in & count the number of splines to have any chance of getting the right bits.

 

You also need to measure & count the splines that the CV joint joins to on the driveshaft if you want to have a go at "mix & Match"

 

 

One other thing to think about...... as http://nw.rhocar.org/lsd.htm you see with a standard axle you have to dish it to fit in the Lobro joints, not a problem for you but it led me to thinking is the L/W designed to take lobro joints or can you make enough space for them?? If not it would seem you are stuck with option 3 above...

 

You can always give me a bell (i'm on a 310 area code here) & I can give you my limited experience, I had 3 different diffs in my old 2b last year so I have a bit of knowledge of how it all goes together!!

 

Dan

[Guest ScotMac]

Hmmm....I got a reply on the locostbuilders site, that helps makes some of this clear to me...here it is:

 

The latest Quafie ATB's will accept lobro joints. Although it is still true that you can't get inside to fit the circlips, they now use 'snap rings' which sit in the groove on the lobro shaft where the circlip would be. when the lobro joint is pushed into the diff the snap rings simply expands and hence retains the joints. This is now possible since Quaife have added a chamfer to the inside of the diff so that you can remove the joints using a slide hammer and the chamfer will contract the snap ring so that the lobro will come back out again with a little force.

 

I know this because I have fitted a new Quaiffe ATB to my Sierra diff and I am using lobro joints both sides with disk brakes.

 

As for having shafts with lobro's on the diff side and push ins on the hub side (or vice versa) surely this is not a good idea.. The push in joints are spring loaded and hence don't need retaining circlips. The springs in the joints appose each other and therefore keep themselves in place. If you put a lobro on one side then only one side of the shaft would be spring loaded and hecne would be in danger of coming out....?