Robin Hoods Poor Quality?

[Guest ultrapro]

Good evening everyone.

I've been looking into starting my own kit car build for the last couple of weeks and had almost reached the stage where I had chosen a Robin Hood 2b as the ideal purchase. So you can imagine my surprise and disappointment when I came across various threads on locostbuilders.co.uk where the consensus view appears to be that the kits suffer badly from poor overall quality.

 

Two threads that contain some particularly vitriolic comments are these:

 

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=67168

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=67181

 

For example:

 

I've seen several sites (albeit a while ago now) and met several people who stated that the Robin Hoods - particularly the 2B model which were shown looking great in the literature were extremely difficult to build due to poor accuracy during manufacture such as chassis tubes significantly out of place, wishbones not fitting etc. etc. Having seen some very well finished examples at Stoneleigh a few years ago in the owners' club area it is my opinion that the proportions of the car are completely wrong and that the styling is extremely clumsy.

The long standing problem with Robin Hood is that while they knew how to drive production cost down they knew sweet F A about automotive engineering, particularly the suspension. They used every suspension system known to automotive engineering over the years and never got any to work properly.

 

Obviously I'm expecting it to be a long hard project but I'm not prepared to find myself making comprimises because the kit I've paid for isn't up to scratch to start with.

 

I must say that having come across this messageboard before locostbuilders.co.uk I'm pretty surprised to be seeing these opinions because the overriding sense I'd got was that Robin Hoods were staggeringly good VFM. Also, simply looking at photos etc of Robin Hoods in the brochure and on this site I think they look far better than the various other manufacturers that these guys seem to prefer.

 

I'd be very interested if those of you with much RH experience could offer your thoughts on this.

Thanks

Chris

[Guest piddy]

You get what you pay for.

After saying that I was more than happy with the quality of my Robin hood.

You get a far stronger car IMHO.

The only down side is the extra weight will reduce the speed ( power to weight ratio)

If you have made your mind up to buy a 2B then do it.

 

I'm Presently a Luego owner.

[Guest ScotMac]

Get a LightWeight, where you decide how well the chassis goes together, since you make the jig and the chassis yourself. Of course, in order to get it through your UK SVA, you also have to do a substantial amount of custom strengthening. But hell, you'll be sure of the quality!!!

 

-Scot

[Guest timswait]

I agree with piddy. You do get what you pay for. The 2B is not a straightforward build, there are many bits which require some adjustment and modification to make fit. The chassis is not the most structurally efficient design and the suspension geometry is less than ideal. Styling wise they do sit a little high for my liking, but I think that fitting long wings hides this to some extent, and to my mind the stainless steel bodyowrk looks awesome. However, on the basis of the amount you get for your money they are still very good. I think you're very unlikely to complete any other seven type car for less money and if you are prepared to put the time in you can achieve a very impressive car that is more individual due to they way you will have had to have used your own ingenuity to solve various problems along the way. Look at the owners club area at any kit car show and you will see a lot of very nicely built Hoods which are easily a match for anything else in the show. And although the heavy chassis and less than perfect suspension mean it probably doesn't match the likes of Tiger or Westfield for performance (I've never driven one so wouldn't know for sure) it handles brilliantly compared to any tin-top I've driven. With a bit of setting up it can be made very neutral and well balanced and you can get understeer or oversteer on demand and nice smooth progressive slides without it trying to bite back! The steering is sharp and direct, there's little body roll in short it's how a sports car should be. I use my 2B for sprinting and I do sometimes beat more powerful Westies, Caterhams and suchlike, so the handling can't be so much worse!

IMHO the 2B offers great value for money if you want a fun, individual, sweet handling, reasonably quick, nice looking car. If you want the ultimate in performance, or an easy build, look elsewhere.

The 2B does have a couple of advantages over the competition. It's bigger, so fat and or tall people can drive it more easily than most sevens. It also has more boot space. It's possibly stronger, the sections used are more substantial than most sevens, but that's somewhat offset by some poor design with bends in less than ideal places and lack of triangulation. Without any crash tests to go on I'd be wary about saying for certain that it's stronger, but I think for most real world accidents I'd rather be in a 2B than any other seven.

[Joel]

the consensus view appears to be that the kits suffer badly from poor overall quality.

 

I don't think the Robin Hood (GBS) kits are inherently of poor quality - the final product is very much down to high much time and effort the individual builder is prepared to put in. They're not like the 'premium' brands, where you could throw a monkey with a spanner into a garage on Friday, and by monday morning he'd have produced a perfect car. To have a kit that simpy bolts together like that in a weekend, you'll pay a massive premium. So yes, expect to fettle every panel, and expect it to take you a year, if not two, to finish.

 

Smiles per £ though, you'll struggle to beat them.

[Guest hypermick]

I think Timswait has summed it up pretty well, and I'd only add one or two points beyond.

 

The first is that watching the videos Richard does go a long way to suggesting that if youve got a regular toolbox and some knowledge of servicing a car you can build a 2B. Granted you can, but the build will stretch you technically simply because you do need other facilities to help you take out the loose (or sometimes lack of !) production tolerances used, particularly with the chassis.

 

Whilst Im looking forward to finishing my own 2B, and for the umpteenth time I'll admit it, yes, its been a slow build and only because of lack of time, but I wouldn't purchase another kit from the factory again. In preference I'd probably build another Seven derivative instead of, or perhaps barter on a 2B someone else lost interest in and was selling on very cheap. My kit was purchased at the beginning of 2002 and during that time a friend and I have also completed 2 Westies and a Caterham, I have to say with far fewer problems. (with the Caterham, none at all).

 

Certainly the 2B is cheap to build, but its also a challenge if you want to get things absolutely right,. so if youre aiming for something thats going to look near to the "dogs doodahs" it really is a case of building out the built in "slop", ..... In fairness I don't mind challenges, provided the thing isn't wanted on the road by tomorrow, and if thats the aim, it may be best to look at another type of kit.

 

I think the percentage of kits you see part built for sale sums the whole scenario up,. perhaps quite fairly.

 

 

Mick

[Guest erichetherington]

I'd definitely buy another if I was starting again but I might do it this way:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Robin-Hood-2B-Unfini...1QQcmdZViewItem

[Guest chris brown]

As others have said it is not an easy build and there is more "thinking time" than building time required, and yes nothing fits first time therefore you will never see 2 hoods the same as each builder has his or her own interpretation of overcoming the many problems that crop up. This I believe is the "magic" thing about the hood, it also makes them the best and cheapest fun per mile there is. My grin is still there each time I take it out and that is after 20 plus K miles and 5 years.

[Guest ultrapro]

As others have said it is not an easy build and there is more "thinking time" than building time required, and yes nothing fits first time therefore you will never see 2 hoods the same as each builder has his or her own interpretation of overcoming the many problems that crop up. This I believe is the "magic" thing about the hood, it also makes them the best and cheapest fun per mile there is. My grin is still there each time I take it out and that is after 20 plus K miles and 5 years.

 

Is this because of the inherent difficulty of buliding your own car or is it because the kits themselves are of variable quality and so require different compromises? Is ths superspec any better in this respect?

[Guest allenr03]

I've just built a Superspec, took me 5 months! I spent ages on here looking for tech support and better ways of doing things. I have replaced so many components that were supplied by the factory because I didn't like them or wasn't happy with the way they did things. It wasn't a cheap build but it is still alot cheaper than buying a westfield or caterham. There were lots of things that didn't fit properly and I have to be honest, I think that was half the fun of the build. If I had a caterham where everything fits and it is an airfix approach to building I don't think I would have enjoyed it as much. The DVD instructions RH supply are a bit of a joke but if you know a bit about cars and can work on things logically it isn't that much of an issue.

 

In terms of driving I have about 140bhp on tap and it flys even though it weighs in around 700kg's. I kicked a Leon Cupra R - 2.0T - into touch yesterday an in terms of handling it feels great. I've had the geometry set up professionally and the thrust line of the car is spot on. I have far more faith in the chassis than some of the other cars I looked at.

 

Would I buy another? Nope, my next car will be a Cobra (just need to save up the £20K lol.) Did I enjoy building the car and am I pleased with what I've got now? Yep and absolutely.

 

Building these things is as much part of the fun as driving them. Buy a 2B or a Superspec (or a Hood - GBS's new car) but accept they aren't perfect and work through the issues to get a nice car at the end.

 

Good luck.

 

Rich

[philshelton]

i bought a pre built car and love the look of the stainles . as or strength wouldnt ant to be anything but a 2b. hit a car head on at a bend and all walked away. 2b not so good but thats only metal so can be and wil be fixed. ifyou like the look go for the 2b if u got feet smaller than a size9 go for the zero 7 looks great but my size 11 feet cant get less tan 2 pedles at a time but would love one

[philshelton]

I agree with piddy. You do get what you pay for. The 2B is not a straightforward build, there are many bits which require some adjustment and modification to make fit. The chassis is not the most structurally efficient design and the suspension geometry is less than ideal. Styling wise they do sit a little high for my liking, but I think that fitting long wings hides this to some extent, and to my mind the stainless steel bodyowrk looks awesome. However, on the basis of the amount you get for your money they are still very good. I think you're very unlikely to complete any other seven type car for less money and if you are prepared to put the time in you can achieve a very impressive car that is more individual due to they way you will have had to have used your own ingenuity to solve various problems along the way. Look at the owners club area at any kit car show and you will see a lot of very nicely built Hoods which are easily a match for anything else in the show. And although the heavy chassis and less than perfect suspension mean it probably doesn't match the likes of Tiger or Westfield for performance (I've never driven one so wouldn't know for sure) it handles brilliantly compared to any tin-top I've driven. With a bit of setting up it can be made very neutral and well balanced and you can get understeer or oversteer on demand and nice smooth progressive slides without it trying to bite back! The steering is sharp and direct, there's little body roll in short it's how a sports car should be. I use my 2B for sprinting and I do sometimes beat more powerful Westies, Caterhams and suchlike, so the handling can't be so much worse!

IMHO the 2B offers great value for money if you want a fun, individual, sweet handling, reasonably quick, nice looking car. If you want the ultimate in performance, or an easy build, look elsewhere.

The 2B does have a couple of advantages over the competition. It's bigger, so fat and or tall people can drive it more easily than most sevens. It also has more boot space. It's possibly stronger, the sections used are more substantial than most sevens, but that's somewhat offset by some poor design with bends in less than ideal places and lack of triangulation. Without any crash tests to go on I'd be wary about saying for certain that it's stronger, but I think for most real world accidents I'd rather be in a 2B than any other seven.

had a heads on in a 2b and with the crash test lol that is the place to be out of the 7s. cars a mess but me and pasanger ok. going to fix 2b cus if it happenend again want to be in a 2b

[Snapperpaul]

It sounds as if you have not been to the shows and had a good look at the available cars close up.

The 2b is IMHO the strongest 7 you will get and you are sitting in a tubular roll cage.

I think for most real world accidents I'd rather be in a 2B than any other seven.

The 2b will try your patients but at a recent kit car event other manefacturers were aknowledging the skills of the builders on this site. The 2b is not the easiest of kits to build but all of them have problems, only the Caterham and possibly the westfield are a true bolt together car and you pay for that.

The one thing you do get with a 2b or any Robin Hood for that matter is this club and probably all the solutions you will need to get your kit on the road.

[Guest Ian & Carole]

Hi Chris

 

Like every one says you get what you pay for !

 

Westie, Caterham put together in weeks. £12k ?

 

Build YOUR Hood your way and the feeling of satisfaction is immense. £3-4 k ?

 

Ours cost £3k to get it on the road and 18mths to build.

 

 

Lots more spent since though!!!!!!!!!!

 

Ian J

[Guest ballin]

In answer to your question, and as a 2B owner, I would have to say yes, Robin Hoods are bad quality.

Obviously we can only really talk chassis and design here, because everything else is down to the builder.

 

But the chassis is VERY poorly welded, and as said the suspension designs are all crude bar the wishbones, which generally dont fit very well anyway.

The welds are amateur at best, and in most cases the chassis isn't fully welded either!!

I would never recommend a Robin Hood after owning one, and funnily enough the same thing was said to me before I got one!! I guess I had to try it for myself! For the money they are good, but I would always advise paying that bit extra and getting a Westfield or similar.

 

My 2 cents! (and to put the nail in the coffin for me, GBS customer service is poor at best)