Won't Run

[Guest DROID]

Hi,

 

Okay, took the car out for its first run at the weekend only to break down ;-(. The car was running fine but after about 20 miles or so she misfired a coulpe of times. Another 20 to 30 miles and she misfired and stopped, switched the ignition off and on again and away we went for another 5 miles. This happened all the way home until eventually she would only run for a couple of meters and at the end she would't start. Initially, I replaced the coil, but she still didn't start. Next morning a few turns of the key and away she went???

 

The engine fitted is the 1.6 economy with ESC module. The only modification made to the engine is a 32/36DGAV carb and I think this might be the problem as I can't get the timing correct. I read the ESC as set values for the timing and as such I've disconnected the vacum pipe.

 

The car is always getting petrol so I think it's definately56 down to the ignition side of the car.

 

Anyone else had this problem?

 

Andy

[miikae]

Hi , I had a similar thing a few weeks ago , it turned out to be lack of tank ventilation thus not allowing enough fuel through when i floored as speed , it caused a bit of a vacuum in the tank , pump didnt like it too much , but alls ok now as i now have two vents ,used the back feed spill on the sender unit plus the filler cap .

 

Hope you sort it .

 

Mike

[Guest elwe]

The back of the ESC unit is a heatsink. It was originally bolted to the sierra inner wing so that the sierra chassis also acted as a heatsink. Make sure you have the ESC unit bolted to something that conducts heat well (and isn't hot already) with a good conect between the ESC unit and what it is bolted to. i.e. don't bolt it to a round tube.

[enforcer]

The engine fitted is the 1.6 economy with ESC module. The only modification made to the engine is a 32/36DGAV carb and I think this might be the problem as I can't get the timing correct. I read the ESC as set values for the timing and as such I've disconnected the vacum pipe.

 

You DO have a vacuum connection between the Carb and the ESC unit don't you? I have a 32/36 DGV with the ESCII unit and it won't run properly without a vacuum pipe from the outlet at the base of the carb to the ESC unit. If your ESC doesn't have a vac input then your pipe at least needs to be blocked off.

 

[Guest elwe]

You will need to block off the vacuum take of at the carb but the 1.6 economy ESC unit doesn't have a vacuum connection, it doesn't alter the timing it just fires the coil in reaction to the signal from the dizzy.

[agent_zed]

If its not the ignition, i would check that the fuel hasn't got water in it. I had a similar thing a few years back where it got worse as more water got sucked into the carb from the tank. Mind you i did take 1 litre of water out of the tank!!! and seeing as it hadn't rained when this happened i blame my local tescos petrol. Just a thought.

[Guest DROID]

Thanks for replying. I've checked all the connections etc and all seem okay. The ESC is bolted to the firewall albeit I will add heatsink compound this evening. In all the car has just done 300 miles in total between the SVA and small local runs and everything was okay until Saturday. The car started okay again last night and I left it running for about 20 minutes without any problems, and she was really hot. What I don't understand is when it first happened switching off and on the ignition seemed to cure the fault?

 

I've booked the car in for a rolling road session on Saturday but don't know if I'll make it without breaking down again ;-(

 

CAn you buy / replace the ESC ignition system?

 

Andy

[agent_zed]

Thanks for replying. I've checked all the connections etc and all seem okay. The ESC is bolted to the firewall albeit I will add heatsink compound this evening. In all the car has just done 300 miles in total between the SVA and small local runs and everything was okay until Saturday. The car started okay again last night and I left it running for about 20 minutes without any problems, and she was really hot. What I don't understand is when it first happened switching off and on the ignition seemed to cure the fault?

 

I've booked the car in for a rolling road session on Saturday but don't know if I'll make it without breaking down again ;-(

 

CAn you buy / replace the ESC ignition system?

 

Andy

 

just reminded me that my dads 2ltr pinto transit does a similar thing. I believe it has the ecu with a vacuum pipe. But it will begin to shudder after a long time of driving but if you switch it off and on again it cures itself. We have had it for years with it doing this and its been fine just have to turn it off and on occasionally. Hope you get it sorted.

[baj25]

Andy,

If you carry a spare sparkplug with you, you can quickly connect it to one of the plug leads when the engine stops. Obviously make sure that the plug is earthed, and you can tell very quickly if you have any spark when cranking the engine- this will tell you if the fault is in the ignition system or not. I had the same symptoms as you on my motorbike once (coming from Suffolk to Chester!)- did points and timing and allsorts at the side of the road, and it turned out to be a loose battery connection! Hope you get sorted for Saturday, I’m interested to hear how you get on with your 1.6 on a rolling road. Cheers, Brian

[Guest DROID]

Hi,

 

Just wondering if anyone knows the correct wiring for the coil. I've checked and the green wire is going to earth which i think is correct. Problem, I've got 3 black wires with male and female plugs, 1 going to the positive through a suppressor and the others linked together. How do you know the two linked are the correct ones (all black). I've changed them runned and car runs both ways.

 

Cheers.........

[Guest timswait]

The black should be at +12V all the time the ignition is on, the green is switched to earth by the ESC unit to make the spark, it shouldn't be connected to an earth permanently. You can hot wire the car by running a wire straight from the battery to the coil to eliminate any problem with the wiring before it gets to the coil.

If you carry a spare sparkplug with you, you can quickly connect it to one of the plug leads when the engine stops. Obviously make sure that the plug is earthed, and you can tell very quickly if you have any spark when cranking the engine- this will tell you if the fault is in the ignition system or not.

That's a good idea, you don't even need a spark plug, just put a screwdriver into the plug lead and hold by the plastic handle (or else you'll loook like this: ) away from the egine block. You can then also tell the strength of the spark, it should easily jump an inch or two. Sometimes you can get a spark which looks OK on the spark plug when it's out of the engine but which is too weak to spark properly under running conditions inside the engine.

[Guest DROID]

The black should be at +12V all the time the ignition is on, the green is switched to earth by the ESC unit to make the spark, it shouldn't be connected to an earth permanently. You can hot wire the car by running a wire straight from the battery to the coil to eliminate any problem with the wiring before it gets to the coil.

 

Do you run the wire to the postive side of the coil??

[Guest peter2b2002]

just a thought, during my build a shock top rubber mount fell into my tank, sat there for 6 months during the build, did over 200 miles going to mot and sva, first legal road run engine would cut out, then restart would tick over for hours then would die. took 2 months to find said rubber bush in the tank, it had turned into a 3" x 1/8 disk and was floating arround the outlet pipe some times blocking the outlet pipe then floating away when the engine died, worth a look, i had to take the tank out to find it

pete2b

[Guest timswait]

Yes, run the wire from the +ve terminal on the battery to the +ve terminal on the coil, and then you know you have a good feed to the coil, and whatever the problem is it's 'downstream' from there (assuming it is ignition related).

I did have a slightly similar problem on my old 1.6 carb engine. Would run fine and then misfire and loose power until it stopped. Ten minutes later it would start up and run fine. Never did really find out exactly what the problem was, but it was something to do with the carb, ran fine on one borrowed from a friend, now I've got a different engine.

[Guest MJThewlis]

Thanks for replying. I've checked all the connections etc and all seem okay. The ESC is bolted to the firewall albeit I will add heatsink compound this evening. In all the car has just done 300 miles in total between the SVA and small local runs and everything was okay until Saturday. The car started okay again last night and I left it running for about 20 minutes without any problems, and she was really hot. What I don't understand is when it first happened switching off and on the ignition seemed to cure the fault?

 

I've booked the car in for a rolling road session on Saturday but don't know if I'll make it without breaking down again ;-(

 

CAn you buy / replace the ESC ignition system?

 

Andy

 

Bit late on the uptake but I bought a replacement on ebay for a tenner a couple of months ago. When I dismantled the old one the transistor on the main feed had self distructed! Maplins guestimate has made it work again but a spare is more than useful so watch ebay as they do come up ....

 

Cheers, M.