Type 9 And The St170

[Guest mtechautomotive]

Ok guys, sure this has been asked before...

 

What is the best combination of clutch, release bearing, flywheel etc to bolt our St170 engine to our type-9 box. Graham (gdc) will be the font of knowledge on this one, and sure it woudent hurt to have it written down somewhere!

 

Hoping to get the engine in this weekend, finalise wiring and then bolt on the TBs and ECU. Going to do a video of a typical TB fitment, balancing wiring etc so if anyone is thinking of going down the route it will definately help!

 

Cheers,

Matt

[Guest gdc]

hi matt

re the g/box to engine ,

i went to burtons and spent a fortune on a flywheel ip racing clutch and alloy bell housing .

however when i did dans zetec we used an 1800 zetec flywheel a combination of a 23 tooth sierra clutch and

an 1800 zetec cover plate i cant be sure on the release bearing but i think its capri ,

make sure the end of the crank is bushed i think it is as standard .

i had to shorten the input shaft to the gearbox by 7mm , i first put it together withought measuring

and the whole lot locked up , easy jub with the 4in angle grinder .

i am pretty sure that will work , if it hasnt been done on you engine you will need to remove a lot of the extra webbing to the sump to allow the starter to fit i have a part no for the starter somewhere , deffo do before trying to fit the engine .

 

lets have some pics then .

 

you have my no if you need to phone me .

 

 

graham

[Longboarder]

I started with an 1800 mondeo flywheel, pressure plate and clutchplate, all new. Combined with release bearing Quinton Hazel Part no CCT133 it all works mechanicaly. But it is marginal for transmitting the 175 ish power of a 2litre blacktop. I tried another new plate with the same result. Clutch slip in the higher gears. With the ST170 engines extra power I can't see this combo lasting anytime at all.

 

Rethink and research for cheapish solution led to 1800 mondeo/escort flywheel drilled for standard 2L sierra pressure plate and uprated organic sierra 2L clutch plate. Use the standard sierra release bearing and pressure plate and it copes easily with the power. You can buy the organic clutch plate from Retroford. You can have your own flywheel drilled, tapped and dowelled by your local good engineering shop or get it from Retroford as well. You probably have the sierra release bearing and pressure plate already. Don't forget to fit a new needle roller spigot bush in the back of the crank. Not normaly one in there. It's the same one the sierra uses. Also don't forget to use a thread lock/sealer on the flywheel to crank bolts or you get oil leaking onto the clutch plate.

 

Nigel

[Guest kevin booth]

I had the problem of clutch slip, found out that the zetec clutch is designed to be easy to push down, the diesel is a bit better. I re-drilled the 1.6 zetec flywheel and fitted a 2.0L pinto clutch problem solved.

[Guest gdc]

mayby me spending the quids , meens i didnt get the slipping clutch .

dans has been fine but mayby as said the extra horses may make a difference .

 

graham

[Guest mtechautomotive]

guys,

 

Cheers for the feedback. Will no doubt be on the phone to you Graham over the coming months!

 

Will get some piccies up ASAP, want to get cracking on the mapping, looking forward to some good hourse put in and *maybe* topple the 200 mark. Graham, expect an email with a new map if that happens!!

 

Cheers guys, will crack on this weekend. Fist things first is a bit of webbing chopping!

 

Matt

[Guest gdc]

hi matt

re the mapping , i find in higher gears the wind restance is such that i have to play tunes on the g/box as if the revs

fall below the 4200 mark the vvt drops out and i struggle to get it back up to speed .

nigel felt that 3000 might be a better figure to head for for vvt as he felt the profile looked better .

 

cheers graham

[Longboarder]

Graham, switching the cam earlier is something to experiment with but it's not one simple software click. Your fuel and ignition mapping between 3000 and 4000 is currently for the shopping cam timing and wont be spot on for the high rev timing. I dont know how much change but you could trial switching at 3750 (or 3500, 3250) with sensible guesstimate changes to the fueling and see if there's a better place to switch the cam. I mean the graphs of your fueling are currently two curves changing at 4000. You have to rewrite the bit between the new switching point and 4000 to match with the top part of the curve. It's currently matches with the bottom part of the curve. You may also have to reprofile the changeover point. I know that's what I would do and trial it on the road with the computer in the car. There is a bit of lattitude in settings and if they are only 5% out you just lose power! If they are 25% out the engine goes bang so there is a risk involved!

 

Of course the proper way to do it is on the rollers and do maps for switching at 3000, 3250, 3500 and 3750. Timing would also be done and the switchovers reprofiled. Then just drive it with each map and see which map suits you driving style, the situation and the car. Might be 3000 for journeys and 3750 for trackdays. Who knows.

 

Nigel

[Guest mtechautomotive]

Nigel is 100% spot on.

 

Bring it all to detling graham and I can map it for you there.

 

I will be experimenting with mine when shes up and running.

 

Am thinking that as its only idle that causes issues it may be better to have a switch over at say 1500rpm?

 

The V4 that is due out asap will have a PWM output on it so I can always map it for that. You *could* do it using the boost control maps and preneting to drive an AMAL valve but that may be an awkward way round.

 

Get it to detling we can strap it down and have a tweak

 

Oh our new wesbite is up, take a peak and let us know what you all think!! (spellings etc lol!)

 

Cheers,

Matt

 

www.mtechautomotive.co.uk

[Guest gdc]

hi nigel / matt

i realise the changes will need to be done on the r/r it was a sugestion to matt that he altered the settings on his one and i could mayby nick the map when it was sorted . i know not enough to even try to change the map myself .

 

see you at detling .

 

graham

[Longboarder]

99% of the time the cam switching point is about drivability, not power. The power curves of the two cam timings are very different. If you are forced to have a simple on/off rather than a progressive advancement of the cam as the revs rise then I would imagine the aim should be to find a switching point where the curves cross or are at least close so the switch causes the minimum jump in power. I would be tempted to rig the cam to be switched manualy and map to say 4000 on the cam retarded position then switch to the cam advanced position and try to map from say 2000rpm. Then choose a switching point as described above and perhaps use slight ignition retard from optimal to smooth the onset of advance cam timing if it is a bit of a jump. I would completely disregard to revs which Ford switch at, even as a guideline. The two curves would look a bit like this I would think.

 

 

I think I said something similar when you posted the power curve initialy. I felt it would make the car difficult or even dangerous to drive with the sudden jump in power occuring perhaps as you accelerated out of a bend.

 

Nigel

 

I wish I could come and play when you do the biz at Detling but I will still be in Oz. Bummer.

[Guest gdc]

hi nigel

cheers for the info .

as far as i am aware the vvt is on or off , it is not progressive as its a soliniod , i agree you need to be aware of what revs you are at when trying hard , but up to now i havnt had an issue , main prob is as i said earlier is lack of power when

at speed but not into the vvt on area ,its not a major issue and i will prob learn to drive arround it ,

i do like the ability to be able to drive a relativly high powered car through a town or through road works ect withought

constantly blipping the throttle or having to depress the clutch its a car with 2 lives , great through town and then very quick on the open road .

is there a way of running 2 maps and having the ability to switch between them .

ie 1 for say a track day and then for the drive home something a bit milder .

i dont want to loose the nice shopping trolly bit if i can help it .

 

graham

[Peter Bell]

Would it be possible to connect it through a kick down switch as well as the software, so it comes in when you really mean it?