Robin Hood Superspec Zetec First Start

[Guest Jomeo69]

Ok today after doing another compression test and finding the results totally different from yesterdays. (150,153,148,142)

Replaced a load of earth cables and went over any wiring that i have done and went to start. Nothing much happened.

Turned over for a bit then a cough then another cough and then it burst into life.

 

This is the third run after id remembered to video it.

 

 

YES its totally over riching on cyl 3 and 4 to the point where it is firing flame back out the TB.

But the main thing is its running, and on all 4 cylinders.

 

Andy the map you sent me made little difference but i think that could be down to my LC1 not reading correctly or on the other and more likely hand not being wired up right.

So Onwards....

And many thanks to all who helped.

Joe

[Longboarder]

Well it does at least run. Pretty rough but there are checks to do. I wouldn't run it with the lambda sensor connected. Any changes you make may be offset by changes the ECU is making via the lambda feedback. Put the rest of the exhaust on. Not to save your neighbours ears but to give some exhaust back pressure and get the engines running conditions closer to the engine the map comes from. Cold running is often very rich on aftermarket maps so you need to get the engine up to temperature before you can make any sensible changes. You have put in four new plugs haven't you?

 

Nigel

[Guest woolly]

as Nigel says put the exhaust on and let it warm up, there is so much air being pulled over the sensor.

 

big tip. don't look down a throttle body and open the throttle.

 

woolly

[Andy Spencer]

All good advice before - actually I've just weakened my map on cold start ups by 30% as it was running like a bag of spanners for the first few minutes and its made a huge difference.

Definitely don't have the lambda feedback on.

I'll drop the program to you on email.

[Guest Jomeo69]

Many Thanks for the advice guys.

Yes Nigel four new plugs.

The next thing will be to get the exhaust on and the fan relayed in. Oh yes and take the lambda sensor out. lol

Andy, Super Duper thank you very much.

This may turn into a bit of a build thread we shal c how it all goes.

Many Thanks Again.

Joe

[stevedohc2b]

Jo if you are going down the cat route, as I think you will with a new engine get it all running right before fitting as over fuelling and miss running can kill the cat.

 

Just happened to a relatives Madza !! and they never go wrong!!!

 

Also don't remove the lambda leaving it connected as it will now read pure air and ECU will add fuel. switch off in program is safer.

 

And over fuelling can cause boor wash damaging engine.

 

Stephen

[Guest Jomeo69]

Hey guys. im back sorry to be a pain. The saga contiues.

 

Right im back to square one again.

Ater putting in new plugs (checking that they were all sparking - all good), removing and taking the lc1 out of the equation, and putting the exhaust on without the cat we tried to start it agian using the same map but what a suprise NOTHING.

 

Using the same map on the K3 and changing nothing all it does is turn over. Tries to start to the point where the light on the ecu turns green but only turns at about 300rpm for about 3 seconds after stopping the cranking cycle then stop. On inspection the exhast is only warm on 1 and 4 and nothing on 2 and 3.

 

We have taken the plugs out and checked all seems well.

 

So we then tried all sorts of settings on the map that Andy (Many Thanks Andy) sent and absolutly nothing seemed to make a difference no matter what we changed wether it was ignition advance, injection timing and ignition timing and different combinations of. And to be honest we are fresh out of ideas and experience but are getting more and more frustrated with the lack of propper life from this brand new engine. Im starting to think if think was a mistake getting a new engine and a quite complicated ignition and induction system.

 

If anybody has any ideas or can shed any light on this situation i would be massivly gratefully.

Many Thanks again for your patience.

Joe

[Guest Toenee]

I had a simlar problem on the first start of my zetec, after a lot of playing around I seem to remember that it was something to do with the config of the ignition driver outputs and not in the map.

 

I know this dosent fix your problem but might point you in the right direction, ie not the maps but the configuration.

 

 

Tony

[Andy Spencer]

OK time to leave the maps alone and load one of the ones I sent to you, unaltered. On the live screen when you turn it over, check you are registering a sensible rpm. Have you used shielded cable ion the crank sensor?

Also check water temp and air temp sensors are reading correctly. Are the plugs wet when you take them out? The plugs are incredibly sensitive. Are injectors definitely working correctly? Check throttle pot is working correctly, and is it calibrated? Are all butterflies opening fully? Are throttle bodies balanced and the small air inlets blocked or connected to each other?

Don't blame the engine yet, I'm sure its fine, it is a trying process to get the Emerald and Zetec working but we're all here to help and offer suggestions and its worth it in the end. Just wish I was closer for a home visit!

[Guest Jomeo69]

Cool ile answer the questions part at a time due to getting over to see the car being a pain with the shift patterns im on at the moment.

 

1. The engine loom im using is a flying lead loom from emerald and came with a sheilded cable for the crank sensor.

2. Both the temp sensors are working as they should and reading correct temps.

3. When we took the plugs out they were slightly damp but not wet.

4. Havnt checked the injectors which i will do next time.

5. Throttle pot is working correctly and calibrated.

6. Btterflies are opening fine.

7. Throttle bodies are ballanced and all the small inlets are screwd in - so blocked.

 

Another sympton that i have just remembered. When we were Cranking and trying to start it when i opened the throttle it would kill any vague sign of life. If anything it would get further with the throttle fully closed but still not start if you know what i mean.

 

Hope this sheds some light on the situation. Like i said ile test the injectors when i get round their early next week.

 

Joe

[Guest Jomeo69]

OK UPDATE TIME.

 

This time checked the injectors. All fine and firing a good pattern.

 

No sensible RPM at all. about 350 on cranking but that was a one off and they are usually lower than that.

 

One thing i did notice Tony your shout on this one.

On the ignition timing screen. i noticed the pins for the ignition outputs The main relay control on pin 4. we have nothing plugged into pin 4. could this be the problem??

Both our ignition outputs are correct its just that one that is suspicious.

 

Other than that i dont know what to try.

Any help would be greatly appreciated cheers guys.

Joe

[Guest Jomeo69]

Anyone??? or are you all at newark?

jelouse much lol???

[Guest Jomeo69]

After a quick call to emerald it turns out that apparently the main relay control is a bust and only put in there for lotus engines.

 

That was i think my last lead so if anyone out there has any ideas that would be great.

Joe

[Longboarder]

I'm sorry I don't know more about the emerald ecu as I use Omex which had it's teething problems but they were all mapping and has been ultra reliable ever since. One thing you might try is to use an old fashioned timing light on the front crank pulley to see what the timing actualy is, not what the computer says it is. As there is no pointer or usefull tdc mark on the pulley you will have to make one. Wind the engine to TDC, make up a triangle of ally with a hole for a bolt and use one of the oil pump housing bolts to mount it. Pic to follow when I've made a pointer and found the tippex. If you still have the belt covers on just put a splodge of tippex on the cover in a suitable position. Once in place put a dab of tippex on the pulley by the pointer and then put another dab about 6mm BTDC which is to the right of your mark if you are leaning over the nosecone. (pulley is 130mm dia. Circumference 408mm so 5 degrees btdc is about 6mm round the rim. I assume cranking timing is set say 3 - 5 deg btdc. It should be!) Then fire it up with the light reading 1 or 4 HT lead and see what you've got.

 

Nigel

[Andy Spencer]

Hi

What fuel pressure are you running at? Should be 3 bar.

When you say 'no sensible rpm at all' do you mean that the ECU is not registering a sensible rpm? If so then the crank sensor is the place to go - is it set up to the Ford 36:1 trigger? Is the cam sensor definitely disabled in the setup menu?

 

If all else fails, it may be worth starting the engine with the live screen up and adjusting the fuelling and timing at idle to see if it makes any difference (can't remember which keys to use, look at the manual).

 

Does it emit any black smoke when its running?

 

Cheers