3a Suspension

[Guest Scarlet]

Hi, I tried joining in the discussion re Pete the Dog's problems but haven't yet found the answer to my car's bottoming out. I am a new member and recently bought a 3A with just 370 miles on the clock. The previous owner was slight of build and drove solo. My wife and I are heavyweights, hence the problem. The chassis complete with suspension was bought back in 1999 and the car took a long while to complete. From the paperwork I have, I understand that the springs are rated at 180 lbs and I believe this is too light for the job? I have tried taking them up 2 turns with little or no success. Can anyone point me in the direction of expert advice in terms of either a reliable firm who might investigate/remedy the problem,or alternativly offer information about availability of suitable suspension units at reasonable cost and any further guidance on fitting by an enthusiastic amateur mechanic with a background in much older cars which had leaf springs!

[IanS]

replacement coil springs shoule be easily obtained.

You need to know free length, rate, and diameter as bike springs have been used (often 1.9 inch dia).

So options are a longer spring of the same rate or a higher rate spring at the same free length.

 

Add your location if you want someone local to help.

[Big Jim]

As Robin Hood altered the suspension around, even on the same model, it would be good to know just what you have got on.

But, the 3A is the same as the mark 3, it just came with escort clocks instead of using the old sierra pod.

 

The front & rear springs are usually mounted on zimmeride shock absorbers, (some 3A's did get Spax shocks as standard, which are OK) the Zimmerframe ones need to be thrown in the bin at the earliest opportunity as they are crap, and tend to snap as well.

 

For the front suspension, the full list of modifications are;

A) remove the anti-roll bar and fit tie-bars.

either;

1) reduce the spring poundage to around 130lbs but using decent shockers, this with the standard wishbone set-up, or

2) re-engineer the top wishbone so that the top mounting point for the shocker is 1½" closer to it's pivot point, and still use the 180lbs x 9" long springs but again on decent shockers.

C) the main pivot point of the top wishbone is mounted just in the box section of the chassis, this is not strong enough and will wear & crack very quickly, some form of strengthening is required. People have done a number of things. Also, the long shaft that the wishbone pivots on, will turn in the chassis, instead of the wishbone moving on it's bushes on the shaft so the shaft needs fixing so that it cannot turn in the chassis.

The wishbones need drilling and grease nipples fitting.

 

For the rear suspension:

 

Robin Hood fitted 2 types of shocker to the rear of mark 3's and 3A's that I know of, there is the type with and eye at the bottom and straight rod at the top, or the type with eyes at both ends. Apart from the mountings, they are really the same, both crap!

You may need to experiment with spring poundage on decent shockers. when I changed mine, I bought adjustable Spax shockers with 11" long springs (the open / closed lengths were the same within ½" or so) and finished up with 170lbs x 11" springs.

 

You will also need to look at the whole area where the shockers mount. They fix to what is really a piece of angle iron that bolted with 2 bolts to the rear of the tub. If this area is not strengthened up, in time the angle iron will twist and the bolts will rip out of the tub.

 

for all these mods, it's best that you visit a show and have a good look around cars that have already been sorted.

[Guest Scarlet]

Thanks to Jim and Pete for their advice. I'm still digesting all the various suggestions and trying to get my head round them. I think the best suggestion was to look at other cars that have already been modified. I am in the King's Lynn, Norfolk area and if anyone has a similar car around here I would welcome the chance to have a look.

Incidentally, thanks Jim - I had been wondering where the instrument panel came from. Nev

[Guest Nobby c]

Hi, i've got a 3A & i'm just along the A47 at East Dereham, i don;t have the problem that you have but i am replaceing the bushes on my rear suspention over this winter, you are very welcome to ride over & check out my car to see if it's the same or different to yours. Regards

[Guest Scarlet]

Hi Nobby C, I would very much like to meet you, see your car and discuss suspension, etc. I am a retired old fart so I could come virtually any time (not this w/e). Can you give me either an address or a phone number to make arrangements? If the roads are dry I might even come in Scarlet - yes, it's the car's name, not mine! Cheers, Nev

[Guest Nobby c]

Hi Scarlet, check your mails, i've sent you my contact details. Speak to you soon. Regards Nobby c

[Guest Scarlet]

Hi Big Jim, I have finally got round to taking out the rear suspension on the 3A for a look and a view to upgrading. I hear what you say about the top mounting to angle iron and have looked at one of these on another member's car. However, mine is a different set up. The bottom of the coil over fits in the well where the old Ford spring came out. The top fits inside the boot, in the end of the roll over bar. This looks a more substantial fixing as the roll over has a large heavy duty plate bolted to the body shell.

I suspect these units are Zimmerides. How do you tell? The red springs are 9" long with an internal diameter of a generous 2.25". The dampers are 12" from eye to eye. The springs were almost fully compressed but still allowed frequent bottoming out and felt soft when pressing down on the car. I believe some types allow length adjustment as well as tension? Perhaps longer dampers might help, but I am conscious of the increasing gap between tyre and mudguard - perhaps this is only an aesthetic consideration?. Any further advice on what to replace with and where to get them would be helpful. Also, is there any problem with replacing only the rear units at this stage or should they all 4 be done at the same time - I'm trying to work on a budget! I can send photos

if you want to give me an e-mail address. Happy New Year to you, Nev

[Mitch]

you sure you have a 3a, ?? i thought they were all fixed to side of tub, ?

 

this is sim to Jims,

 

 

http://nw.rhocar.org/monocoque%20rear%20shocks.htm

 

also look on his site for loads of build tips,

 

www.nwrhocar.org

hth Mitch

[Guest mikea]

I have a "new" series three .. slightly different (outboard coilovers on the front). I had the bottoming out issue at the back .. but didn't want to raise the ride height. As a temporary measure I fitted rubber spring assisters .. guess what ... still on 2 years later cost about £20. Available Halfords or various motorsport shops. It does mean limited suspension travel at the back though.

[Guest Scarlet]

Hi, could be a useful tip. I have outboard front coil overs too. Sounds like we have the same model. Cheers, Nev

[Guest mikea]

If your coilovers fit to the bottom of the roll cage ,.. then you have a new three. This was the first monocoque designed to pass the SVA and rear suspension mounts are much more substantial than series three. Not many made .. only two I know on here are mine and longboarders.

[Guest Scarlet]

So we are three of a kind then! Glad to have sorted that out at last as I bought it as a 3A but couldn't understand why it was different from others. I have fitted the spring assistors but not able to road test it yet. Happy New Year, Nev

[Guest Scarlet]

So we are three of a kind then! Glad to have sorted that out at last as I bought it as a 3A but couldn't understand why it was different from others. I have fitted the spring assistors but not able to road test it yet. Happy New Year, Nev

 

I've finally had it on the road and the rubber coil spring assisters on the back seem to do the job for now. The car is also standing at least an inch higher at the back. I guess this proves that the rear springs are too weak. I will see how long the current set up remains effective and if it gives a problem I will be looking to a spring upgrade.

Thanks to everyone for all your help. Nev

[Knock-on]

Springs are pretty cheap or when you figure out what you want, put a wanted ad on the forum and see what comes up