Clutch Troubles

[Guest mcramsay]

righty ho, got IVA on september the 7th! i finally thought i would be finished the car on the weekend just passed. however on friday i thought i would have my first drive of the car around my mates (rather large) drivway.

 

i found that the clutch was slipping when pulling the pedal back up and even with the pedal fully up, the clutch was still dragging, the car would move, but if you revved the engine the clutch just slipped. i tried putting the car in gear and with the hand brake. if you bring the pedal up you could feel the clutch starting to bite, but when the pedal was fully up the engine didnt stall, and you could actually hear the clutch plate dragging on the fly wheel.

 

i then believed it was a cable issue, i slackened it completley off, and found that with no force on the clutch release arm it was extremely stiff. no movement in it atall. this led me to believe i had used the wrong release bearing, so that when the clutch was fully up the bearing was too long, and still pressing on the clutch plate (which would explain why the release arm was not free to move in the slightest) anyway long story short, the engine + gearbox were removed on friday night.

 

i have now ordered a release bearing from richard at GBSC, however he mentioned some modifications that need to be done to the bearing/clutch release arm pin? does any body know anything about these modifications?

 

also when i removed the type nine, i found quite alot of movement on the clutch friction plate splined hub, as you can see on the vid (im not sure if this could be a contributing factor to the clutch problem? the clutch is brand spanking new, and is what was supplied with the new 2.0 zetec engine from gbsc

 

i also noticed a lot of play on the input shaft of the type 9 gearbox, is this anything to be worried about? im guessing its the input shaft bearing that has developed play over the years... im assuming the spigot bearing in the crank of the zetec will hold the shaft still. however if it needs to be sorted then now is the time to do it! here is the vid :

[Guest RPD1970]

Hello,

 

I've done the pivot point modification on my MT75 gearbox, but you say you have the Type 9? not sure if it's the same, but it was a piece of cake. You simply knock out the pivot pin from the outside of the bell housing, tap out the hole, and then replace it with an M12 bolt (about 80mm long from memory). The bolt has a nut which goes on the outside, and a slot cut into the end of the bolt. With that arrangement, you can adjust the height of the pivot with the engine connected.

 

I can try and take some pics if that would help.

 

I'm not an expert on the clutch, but that looks like too much play on the friction plate. I don't think mine had that much in it.

 

Russell

[Guest oddsocks]

Hello,

 

I've done the pivot point modification on my MT75 gearbox, but you say you have the Type 9? not sure if it's the same, but it was a piece of cake. You simply knock out the pivot pin from the outside of the bell housing, tap out the hole, and then replace it with an M12 bolt (about 80mm long from memory). The bolt has a nut which goes on the outside, and a slot cut into the end of the bolt. With that arrangement, you can adjust the height of the pivot with the engine connected.

 

I can try and take some pics if that would help.

 

I'm not an expert on the clutch, but that looks like too much play on the friction plate. I don't think mine had that much in it.

 

Russell

 

 

Or you could just buy the release bearing from westfield and know thats its job done with no worrying if it works or not!

Not sure about type 9 box tho-thought you didnt need to do anything to them

 

jamie

[knights_templar]

movement in input shaft is taken care of by spigot bush, and is normal when not in position.

 

The boss you are moving in your first video is not rigidly connected to the centre plate. and is designed to move against the springs mounted in the plate, a device to aid the smooth take up of drive.

 

I must admit the movement appears excessive to what I remember, however I know where a new engine resides, and can check it tomorrow. Will let you know asap.

 

Type 9 box pivot mod requires the clutch arm pivot point moving approx 10 - 15mm nearer the clutch. The easiest way is to remove the the old pivot, drift will get it out, keep the thrust washer.

 

Find a bolt that will go through the new hole in the box

 

the bolt head replaces the flat top of the pivot you removed

 

put on the thrust washer and a plane flat body washer, followed by a nylock nut.

 

adjust the nut toward the bolt head but allow sufficient space between the bolt head and thrust washer for the clutch release arm fork to sit between them and pivot freely.

 

add another nylock and a washer, adjust this nut until there is approx 10 - 15mm between the last washer fitted and the face of the thrust washer. the bolt can then be pushed through the bell housing, from the clutch side.

 

secure with a nut on the outside of the bell housing.

 

when you have the gearbox back in position just check the movement of the release arm, you need it to come back far enough so that it releases. and that nothing catches. should be sufficient.

 

If above is unclear GBS workshop should help, or PM me.

 

 

Regards

[Longboarder]

The symptoms you are describing is clutch slip. I agree with you that if the cable is released the clutch release arm should have waggle room in the hole in the side of the bell-housing. Pressing it forward toward front of car by hand to pressing it backwards there should be perhaps half an inch of movement. It does sound as if when released it is still pressing on the fingers of the diaphragm. As the bell housing hole is unlikely to be wrong it must be wrong release arm or wrong mounting of the end in the bell-housing or wrong release bearing. Have you made any modification to the mounting pin for the release arm inside the bell-housing? Is the release arm sitting on the shaft of the pin, between the pins head and the surface of the bell-housing that the pin is pressed into? It does not sound as if you need to do any mod to this standard way of mounting with your current components. The mod mentioned above will make the situation worse not better. You need more play not less at present.

 

There may be more than one problem present. It does look from your video as if the pressure plate is duff. I have never seen one with a wiggly centre before unless very worn and even then movement is tiny. The splined centre should be riveted to a plate sandwiched between the front and back friction surfaces and held firmly by circumferential springs. Healthy clutch plates don't wiggle like that.

The gearbox input shaft is fine. I can see the spigot bush.

 

What clutch plate, pressure plate, flywheel and release bearing are you using?

Where did the gearbox come from?

I would suggest you remove the pressure clutch components from the flywheel, the release arm from the bell-housing and examine them closely. Then post pics of the parts and their identification. Diagnosis of the fault(s)first. Then remedy.

 

Nigel

[Guest mcramsay]

The clutch assembly is what was bolted on to the 2.0 zetec engine when I bought it from gbsc. It has never been removed/played with, flywheel is also the standard 2.0 flywheel that came with the engine. I have never driven the car, and the engine has only been run for max 1 hour in it's life! I will call Richard at gbsc tomorrow, what do you recon then, for the price of a new friction plate I should change it? (hopefully it has a part number on it!) even if I get a new plate and it has the same play it will eliminate the friction plate being at fault!

[Guest mcramsay]

The clutch assembly is what was bolted on to the 2.0 zetec engine when I bought it from gbsc. It has never been removed/played with, flywheel is also the standard 2.0 flywheel that came with the engine. I have never driven the car, and the engine has only been run for max 1 hour in it's life! I will call Richard at gbsc tomorrow, what do you recon then, for the price of a new friction plate I should change it? (hopefully it has a part number on it!) even if I get a new plate and it has the same play it will eliminate the friction plate being at fault!

[Longboarder]

Can you look at the assembly in each of it's parts? You still haven't determined what the faults are. Dismantle all the bits, checking as you go that they were correctly installed in the first place. Then examine each one for problems. If you find none then fitting a new clutch plate and reassembling is not necessarily going to sort it all out.

Personally I would make a quick call to retro ford and fit one of their 1800 zetec flywheels with pinto clutch and pressure plate and a Quinton Hazel CCT132 release bearing. Then you would know its good for 200+ bhp and it will all work. Dave College answers his own phone and will post same day.

If you want to stay with zetec parts then still fit an 1800 mondeo (not escort) flywheel, clutch and pressure plate but with a CCT133 bearing. Should work with the standard sierra release arm.

Then assemble gearbox and engine on the ground and check position of release arm/play/function.

 

Nigel

 

Does the release bearing you have look like either of the pics below? 133 on left, 132 on right.

[Guest sandy77uk]

Or you could just buy the release bearing from westfield and know thats its job done with no worrying if it works or not!

Not sure about type 9 box tho-thought you didnt need to do anything to them

 

jamie

 

thats what I did

[Guest Alan_builder]

thats what I did

 

But then you pay Westfield prices and not Ford's.

 

 

Nigel is on the money. The only additional option is to buy a standard 1.8L Mondeo flywheel (now you have a lightend one for your car) and have it drilled for a Pinto clutch plate and of course fit 2L Pinto clutch components. Have the new Flywheel assembly balanced as components and then as an assy. Should work out cheaper.

 

The above of course is dependent on what you find is wrong with the bits you have and the way they have been assembled. It could be simple just the clutch plate put in the wrong way round.

[knights_templar]

Hi

 

Can confirm play in drive plate is NOT normal, you need to remove the clutch cover and have a look

 

you also noted in a later post that you have not had the clutch off since purchase. The engine does not normally come with a spigot bush, which you have to fit to support the gearbox input shaft. to fit this you have to remove the clutch. from your video I would say you have one fitted, possibly at GBS but you need to check.

 

regards

[Guest Alan_builder]

Hi Craig,

 

Just had a look at my old 2L Zetec flywheel and clutch assebbly. There is about an inch 25mm between the cover plate fingers and the nearest part of the splined collar, in your video it looks a bout 12mm one finger nail.

 

So as my earlier post I think the clutch plate is in back to front.

 

Good news on your IVA date, I take it that is as close to the date you wanted?

 

 

[Guest mcramsay]

i will not be able to have a look at the car untill monday at the earliest! i fitted the spigot bearing using a large bronze drift, so no the clutch has not been removed from the flywheel. i do not want to change flywheels/clutch assemblies at the moment, the set up i have should work, so something is wrong someware. first thing monday i will whip the clutch friction plate out and see what i find, and take photos as i go. im guessing the friction plate will be marked?

[Guest Alan_builder]

i will not be able to have a look at the car untill monday at the earliest! i fitted the spigot bearing using a large bronze drift, so no the clutch has not been removed from the flywheel. i do not want to change flywheels/clutch assemblies at the moment, the set up i have should work, so something is wrong someware. first thing monday i will whip the clutch friction plate out and see what i find, and take photos as i go. im guessing the friction plate will be marked?

Hi Graig,

 

The clutch plate is marked, however the names used are not always greatly descriptive. The Flywheel has a low cone removed from the middle of the flywheel, the clutch plate has more of a dome on one side than the other. The dome should fit in the cone hole. Best visual description I can give. If You can't make out the writing on the clutch plate central boss give me a PM and I can take a Photo.