Not Starting After Low Fuel.

[Grim]

when i ran out of fuel once, it dragged muck into the fuel pump which killed it. I fitted a pre-pump filter along with the new pump and never had the problem again. As you've got some fuel flow problems, i suspect your problem is similar. I don't see how changing from emerald to omex would improve the situation, but i'll form an orderly queue behind 2b cruising if you're getting rid, as it is a good system.

[Guest mcramsay]

I kind of agree, I can't see any benefit of the Omex over emerald. What it would cost in the ecu, loom, time to rewire and rolling road you would be better off sorting out your fuel issues and going for a good rolling road session with the emerald. Once it's set up its spot on. Power output won't be any different the emerald does some fancy things like 3 switchable maps etc. I run the emerald in my zero before selling and loved how user orientated it was. I even got a chance to help a bloke map my mates rover v8 marlin on his rolling road!

[Guest 2b cruising]

Nah. Swap it and sell the good system to me. I have more need of it.

[Guest lotusPaul]

I've been away for a while so just got to read this..firstly I can't see point in swapping ECUs unless its nackered,no affiliation but I run emerald and jenvey.I got a spare omex.both will do a fine job.

 

First things first, you need to make a plan of things to check, then equip yourself to do it.

 

I.e. battery charged.

Swap plugs, nothing fancy just standard will do.

 

Both have been mentioned before and for good reason.

 

I'd get it on some ramps and check the whole fuel system.

 

I'd personally strip it piece by piece being careful not to get fuel everywhere.

 

Any old filters should be replaced,cheap enough for the small inline ones but I don't like them.I have a 044 Bosche pump with a large ish filter before the pump.it's gravity feed, then -8 lines right up to the fuel rail where another filter sits first. As said I have the pressure regulator at the end of the fuel rail, this is where its most effective, with a bleed going back to fuel rail filter to close the loop off.it could go back to tank tho.

 

Your regulator doesn't sound like its at end off fuel rail, not an issue as its designed to regulate the pulses from the pump, it can do that else where but it will not work as effectively.

 

Most injectors also have a fine filter within them too.

 

This also means that I do not run a swirl pot, not needed depending on your set up, however I do have a baffled fuel tank which helps the feed to the pump, via the filter..sytec.

 

So, get under and get eyes on, drain all the fuel then start stripping, checking,cleaning or replacing. Take an air line too and blow the pipes through, it may be just debris causing a blockage. Rebuild as you go to prevent moisture contamination.

 

Assuming you have an electric pump then test in the fuel you have drained, just wire it up and check on a battery.carefully.I know the Bosche doesn't like to run dry, it seizes.

 

So once it's given the all clear,if it still doesn't work I'd be checking fuses and relays. The relay is the important part as the emerald ECU is programmed to shut the relay off on over run and save fuel,it should not be wired direct to the pump.

 

It maybe unfortunate at the moment but by being methodical and selective you should be able to build a leak free low maintainence simple fuel delivery system. Better for the future driving.

[Guest Scotty84]

Right guys...... First off many thanks for all your help and advice. I am sure I will be firing questions left right and centre being my first kit car.

 

Well we have found the fault, There is a facet fuel pump/lift pump from the tank. This was only slightly humming when powered so first thought was 1. its life was ending/ended or it was blocked. So I set about removing the filter, as soon as my spanner touched the the pump the wire fell away from the pump. It looks like the wire had been broken previous and someone had just stripped it back and twisted it, then stuck it back in the whole and used a cable tie to wedge it in. As soon as I pushed the wire right in and my mate turned the key we had full power and a full swirl pot.

 

So I have a new Facet lift pump being delivered tomorrow. So I gave the fuel system an overhaul today, tidying it up and adding an addition filter before the high pressure pump. A nice 3 bar pressure at the fuel rail.

 

The reason for looking into the omex kit is purely because my business partner is an omex dealer and builts bespoke looms/Throttle bodies etc for Tvr, lotus and most big V8's..... I would like to have the engine of my kit car running as reliable as it would have in the car, so map, lambda, coolant, fuel pressure sensors etc. I can have all this done at cost and have the likes of launch control, full throttle gear change, shift light etc installed at the same time.

The wiring on this needs a good tidy up and all fuses and relays going in a purpose made waterproof board, at current they are just screwed down and cable tied together lol.

 

With that in mind, if this question is allowed...... What would my Current Emerald ECU and Throttle body set up sell for including the Jenvey induction filter kit?

[Guest 2b cruising]

Darn it. LoL.

 

Well done mate.

Stopping after running out usually is something simple.

 

I will have to keep searching for an Emerald now..

[Longboarder]

Excellent. So your swirlpot is not gravity fed but does have an LP pump to fill it. Electric pumps are a bit valve like. If they are not running they act as a block. I have amended my earlier guess picture to the latest guess not that it matters except hopefully you now know the make-up of your fuel system and that bit more about your car.

 

Nigel

[Guest mcramsay]

For 100 quid for a flying loom from emerald you could rewire the car as you wanted, as it will do all the things listed... Full throttle gear change, traction/ launch control, gear shift light, wideband lambda closed loop control etc. Aside from that glad you got it sorted! Not sure on price but I'm sure a complete emerald and throttle body set up would sell like hot cakes

[Guest Scotty84]

For 100 quid for a flying loom from emerald you could rewire the car as you wanted, as it will do all the things listed... Full throttle gear change, traction/ launch control, gear shift light, wideband lambda closed loop control etc. Aside from that glad you got it sorted! Not sure on price but I'm sure a complete emerald and throttle body set up would sell like hot cakes

 

I may look into that then buddy and get it priced up compared to buying the omex set up.

 

As I have this issue sorted I have one that was there before and after this fault regarding the running.

It is slightly overfueling (puff of smoke when accelerate and smell of fuel from exhaust), but then on 5/10 times I come to a stop the revs drop as if its going to stall, on a few occasions is has......... What should I be looking at? Pressure at my rail is 40psi currently should I up this to 45psi as 3 bar is 43.5psi. Or could iit be something else causing this issue like the map etc.

A friend has said it may be down to running bike throttle bodies????

[Guest Scotty84]

Excellent. So your swirlpot is not gravity fed but does have an LP pump to fill it. Electric pumps are a bit valve like. If they are not running they act as a block. I have amended my earlier guess picture to the latest guess not that it matters except hopefully you now know the make-up of your fuel system and that bit more about your car.

 

Nigel

 

Yup thats the exact setup mine has buddy. Slowly getting to know the car lol.

[Guest mcramsay]

the fuel pressure regulator has to be set at what the car was mapped for, the emerald will allow the fuel pressure on the map to be adjusted, it will rescale the injection map for the fuel pressure you set on the software. However I would not trust this 100% you would still require fine tweaking. Do you know if the car has ever been set up properly on a rolling road? I would plug a laptop into the emerald and download the map that is being used on the ecu. Normally there are some notes on the map file for what the fuel pressure was set to on mapping, and also on the injection settings it will show the expected fuel pressure. 9 times out of ten on a zetec its 3 bar fuel pressure. This is what I would set ithe regulator at and double check this aligns with what the map is expecting. Higher pressure will give s richer mixture if the map is not adjusted and scaled to suit.

 

the idle issue could be a simple setting on the ecu, either throttle position sensor calibration or one of the idle settings. Download the emerald software and manual. It's pretty easy to work out. You can send me the map if you like and I can have a look at the settings for you.

[Guest Scotty84]

the fuel pressure regulator has to be set at what the car was mapped for, the emerald will allow the fuel pressure on the map to be adjusted, it will rescale the injection map for the fuel pressure you set on the software. However I would not trust this 100% you would still require fine tweaking. Do you know if the car has ever been set up properly on a rolling road? I would plug a laptop into the emerald and download the map that is being used on the ecu. Normally there are some notes on the map file for what the fuel pressure was set to on mapping, and also on the injection settings it will show the expected fuel pressure. 9 times out of ten on a zetec its 3 bar fuel pressure. This is what I would set ithe regulator at and double check this aligns with what the map is expecting. Higher pressure will give s richer mixture if the map is not adjusted and scaled to suit.

 

the idle issue could be a simple setting on the ecu, either throttle position sensor calibration or one of the idle settings. Download the emerald software and manual. It's pretty easy to work out. You can send me the map if you like and I can have a look at the settings for you.

 

Thanks for the info buddy, I had the lead come today for the Emerald so we will have a look tomorrow. I have the Guy from Omex popping in to have a look so hopefully he can sort something out. But I will download the map and send it over if we are unsuccesful.

 

I am gueessing I just download it from the Emerald website?

 

The prev owner said it was all set up on a rolling road.

[Guest 2b cruising]

It has been rolling roadbed,but the main thing is was it done by someone who knew exactly about your set up.

Most tuners have a favourite set up as you will possibly find out from your omen guy.

True fact is Emerald really are good. Especially for the price. A race one you are talking k's for not a lot more than the Emerald can do.

[Grim]

there are various potential causes for stalling after coming off the throttle. Many ecus are programmed to cut fuel when you lift off the throttle, which operates above a certain rpm. If this rpm is set too low, as the engine is slowing and the fuel comes back in, it wont have time to react before slowing too much and stalling. Another potential reason could be the idle control, which is set by having the throttle butterflies set slightly open, and controlled by the ecu altering ignition advance to achieve the right rpm. Or perhaps the fuel / ignition map might not be quite right in low load/rpm regions.

 

Perhaps a little rolling road time with a knowledgeable operator to fine tune a few points would be the best option. Changing things like fuel pressure will most likely mess it all up, particularly the normal running, which seems to be ok?

 

Andy

[Guest mcramsay]

Apologies when I read your post incorrect I thought you had altered the fuel pressure. If you have not changed it then leave it set where it is.