Rivet Size And Distance Apart

[Guest steve8274]

hi all

finally going to get round to start building my zero. going to fit diff first then put on back panel and side panels.

my question is what size rivets do you use and how far apart do they need to be?

looked at rivets 3.2 look really small whereas 4 looks a bit big. what have people used?

also when you do rivet panels on, people have suggested bonding them on too.

can you use silicone or does it need to be sikoflex? my reason for saying silicone is that i thought if the panels need to come off for some reason, then it would be easier to remove than with sikoflex.

your opinions would be appreciated

thanks

steve

[Guest djs dad]

slight hijack thread to add please.

ive noticed you can get stainless steel rivits as well as ally. which is best / most suitable?

[megadodo]

I have used 4 mm wherever I felt the extra strength may be beneificial (floor, rear and side panels to the chassis rails) and 3.2 everyelse. I have used stainless steel rivets throughout to restrict corrosion and for a bit of extra strength. Typically they are about 4- 5 cms apart depending where they are and I decided on what looked balanced in between the various rivet runs (i.e equidistant from the middle of a run to the outer edge). You will need a powerful rivet gun for the stainless rivets though!

[Guest Sharky]

Hi guys

 

Just a couple of quick notes on what's been said so far in this thread:

 

1. 3.2mm or 1/8" rivets are ok for most bodywork panel fastening. The grip range will be fine at 2" spacing - especially if you use a good quality of sealant like sikaflex between the panels/chassis members.

2. If you are fastening something like GRP to metal, such as rear cycle wings then spread the load and use a rivet burr (like a washer with a 1/8" hole) up against the GRP to sandwich the softer material to stop it 'pulling through'. Or if you want you can use much wider flat heads on the rivets or better still rivnut and bolt it on with some good penny washers.

2. Always use sikaflex rather than silicone. Silicone might seem like the easy answer and is readily available at DIY stores and is cheaper - but if you ever want to paint over the sealant, silicone will not take the paint (and it can leave an unseen smear on the base material and ruin your paint job) whereas sikaflex is designed to take paint.

3. Stainless and Aluminium is not a match made in heaven and could actually be hell if you are not careful! If you are doing a Hood in stainless panels, then you MUST go stainless on the rivets too, so get a good pair of lazy tongs or an air riveter.

4. If you are doing a Zero like me, then you have to be careful with the steel chassis and Ali panels because the two metals are a good way apart on the Anodic table. In short, this means that the metals have an electrical potential between them and if you get an electrolyte between (winter driving rain and road salt as a prime example) then you get some serious galvanic corrosion setting up. So if you use stainless steel rivets through the aluminium and into the chassis you will have a nice flowery circle of corrosion on the panel around the shiny rivet head next year - worse still if you paint it, the paint will lift off as well! On the other hand, what I consider to be the lesser of the two evils is if you use aluminium rivets then the face of the sheet should stay the same and only the rivet could corrode if there is any electrolyte in the mix and if you have sealed it correctly, then no water and salt can get in so you have a fighting chance and besides, individual corroded rivets tend to be easier to replace than whole panels!

 

HTH

 

Sharky

[harvs]

Hi Sharky

 

Sorry to jump in on this thread, but I just wanted to say thanks for the explanation on stainless / aluminium and rivets. My stainless exhaust cover has just about fallen off - due to the aluminium rivets failing. Now I know why they corroded

[Andi]

I decided on what looked balanced in between the various rivet runs (i.e equidistant from the middle of a run to the outer edge).

 

Or mark equal distances on a length of that white dressmaking elastic band stuff and stretch along (or around) those hard to measure distances transferring the marks to the bit to be riveted.

[Knock-on]

I like 4mm and a 4.2 drill but as Sharky says, 3.2 is sufficient and he knows a hell of a lot more than me. You even get problems with Stainless and normal steel using rivets.

 

From a length viewpoint, I use distance between my thumb and little finger with my fingers together or fingers spread for longer, less vital distances. That way I never lose my ruler or piece of elastic (angle grinder accidents excepted)

[Guest mcramsay]

on a side note i wouldnt put the back panel on straight away it will make life a nightmare! get the diff, rear suspension, driveshafts, wiring loom secured, fuel tank in, rear brake lines in any anything else that goes at the back AND then put the back panel on.... im only saying this from experience! its got in the way of me being able to do pretty much anything at the back of the car!

[Guest oddsocks]

I made a bit of angle iron and drilled 2 holes 50mm apart so you that the distance will be spot on then.

[Guest Sharky]

I agree with Craig when he says to wait a while before putting your back panel in. You get a far better idea of cable runs and plumbing if you leave it loose until you are happy with all of the back end gubbins. Then, once you have drilled all of your P-Clip holes, fixed cable tie clips, put riv-nuts where you want them, made brackets for securing the handbrake conduit (see Shaft's piccies for good ideas on that one) and are generally sorted, then bite the bullet and zip up the rear panel.

 

If you want to have a practice at riveting where nobody will really see it, then I would suggest doing the footwell end panels first - they are a bit of a challenge because of the change in frame angles and can be a bit difficult to get into with your tools initially, so it will make you think a bit and any 'work-arounds' you come up with will stay in mind for the larger (more visible) panels.

 

As regards rivet spacing, don't just blat away at 2 inches apart - sucking eggs here - what I have done is looked at where rivet lines come intersect at the point of the frame apexes and marked through the centre of both rails, then go along the intended rivet run and find the next rivet line that joins it. Now you have your outer points simply divide into that length to get equal spacings for the rivets in between. If you do this then the spacing is kept as neat as possible throughout the car, but it is highly unlikely that this will be 50mm/2" exactly. In fact most of mine even on the mirror image were slightly different, but it's worth doing, otherwise you end up with some strange looking rivet line intersections.

 

Here endeth tin bashing 101

 

Sharky

[Guest steve8274]

thanks guys. all info has been very useful.

think i am going to go for 4mm rivets (aluminium since that is what my shell will be)

is it correct in saying that they need a 4.2mm drill and not 4mm like i initially thought.

will leave back panel till a later date. makes sense when people mention about space required.

on a related note, do the tunnel panels tuck behind the back plate or do they have the edges showing on the front

thanks again

steve

[Shaft]

do the tunnel panels tuck behind the back plate or do they have the edges showing on the front

thanks again

steve

 

 

Hi Steve,

 

I ensured the rear most tunnel sides fastened onto the front of the panel.

The reason behind this being purely for ease of removal of the tunnel panels

should the need ever arise.

As for 4mm rivets, just use a 4mm drill mate. You'll never get a 4mm drill to

cut a 4mm hole in drill held by hand as you'll naturally move the drill around as

you apply pressure.

 

HTH,

 

Nick.

[Knock-on]

I'm obviously a better driller than you carbon boys

[Shaft]

I'm obviously a better driller than you carbon boys

 

 

I can feel a drill challenge coming on Mr Knock-on........

 

Anyway, drills are sooooo last week sweetie, i only interpolate nowadays.

[Knock-on]

It don't matter much anyway as the rivet fills the hole anyway

 

Now, for this challenge, I suggest a hand drill through Ali and Stainless 50mm square sheet at a 45 degree angle with a 10mm gap between. Drill 4 corners and rivet together, you with 4mm and me with 4,2 and lets see who get the tightest and straightest fit

 

So, when you heading down to Woking for a cuppa? Anytime soon?