Catastrophic Failure - Advice Needed

[Guest sandy77uk]

I can't weld so whatever I do will have to be off the shelf, I could buy the joiner from car builders, will then need a threaded connector with pipe with id of 19mm, will have to have a think how best to do it, issue is running a long pipe from back of engine to rad without any bracing, unless fitted under the chasis strut

[Longboarder]

The copper plumbing stuff solders together. You can buy the joiners/T pieces with solder already in them. Use emery to get the pipe ends very clean, wipe with flux, assemble and heat with a blowtorch alternating five seconds from each side, just until you see the first drops of melted solder appear in the join. Let it cool. Job done.

Both my pipes hang free off short lengths of 32mm rad hose. One copper pipe did chafe on a stainless edge and get a pinhole which I soldered up.

 

Nigel

 

The threat of belt failure is probably wrong. Bob, Florin Metal Works has PM'd me about water pumps and as it's a vane type it shouldn't increase the load if the outlet is blocked. Apparently it works harder when the outlet is open. That seems counter-intuitive but I can see it's nothing like as clear-cut as I made out. So I'm talking rubbish on that one.

[Guest sandy77uk]

right been down to my local pipe merchant and have a 38mm/19mm T piece on order and a metre of 19mm ID heater hose, will plum in the bypass when it all arrives

[Guest dinger]

I hope you are "gas safe" Sandy

[Guest sandy77uk]

ok thats whooshed over me I'm afraid

[Guest sandy77uk]

Right, quick update, I took all your comments on board and have modified the design, I've fitted a t piece in the bottom water rail, this connects to the warm water bypass outlet on the stat housing, the heater matrix outlet I have kept blanked off

 

I'm not sure if this is just all in the mind but the engine seems to run a lot calmer and quieter, the wife popped into the garage to bring me an essential cup of tea and commented on how much better she was running (less vibration and quieter)

 

A question though, what temp should i set my fan to come on at? My stat opens at 92, at the moment the fan is set to come on at 95

[Guest The Modfather]

I had a bypass pipe from the outlet on the driver's side of the stat housing, but under hard accelerating i snapped the outlet clean off the housing when then engine hit the bulkhead, losing all of my water in a massive instant. Didn't realise until a few miles later when I pulled onto the drive. I got a new stat housing and cut this outlet off, and blocked the stub end with some metal putty. This stuff is brilliant!

I then left the passenger side still blocked as I had originally. I used a 15mm copper straight joiner with solder rings (which Nigel has mentioned already). a small length (and I mean small) of 15mm tube, and a solder ring stop end. Jubilee clipped and hasn't caused any probs. The solder ring ridges in the straight coupling provides an excellent anchor point once this contraption is pushed into the rubber water pipe, allowing a ridge each side of the jubilee clip, if that makes sense?

You should never put a jubilee clip on a straight piece of pipe unless it has a ridge to stop it pulling off under pressure. Hot water causes the rubber pipe to expand and become malleable, allowing the pipe to pull off easily under pressure.

I was of the opinion that both of these small outlets do the same job. They both feed into the main chamber in the housing, with one to bypass the stat and one to the heater for quick warm up in the cabin before the stat opens. Using either one doesn't matter, as I will be using the passenger side to bypass the stat when I do my winter mods.

[Guest sandy77uk]

Surely when the stat opens, the back plate closes off the warm water bypass, the heater matrix outlet always remains open?

[Longboarder]

I think that's right. I have to admit to a sneaky mod here in using the stat with the backplate cut off. So as I use a heater which also works as the warm-up bypass and I want it to stay open, with the plate off I can use the right side port for the heater/bypass (more convenient for my plumbing than the left).. The flow restriction of the heater prevents too much flow so I still get good warm-up and no overcooling.

 

Nigel

 

Edit. Your engine seems calmer,running better, quieter when the only thing you have done is put in the warm-up by-pass. All that has done is re-stablish flow through the pump and block. Difficult to resist the conclusion that the water pump and belt drive didn't like running without a by-pass and were generating enough vibration that even the Mrs noticed the change.

[Guest dinger]

I think that's right. I have to admit to a sneaky mod here in using the stat with the backplate cut off. So as I use a heater which also works as the warm-up bypass and I want it to stay open, with the plate off I can use the right side port for the heater/bypass (more convenient for my plumbing than the left).. The flow restriction of the heater prevents too much flow so I still get good warm-up and no overcooling.

 

Nigel

 

Edit. Your engine seems calmer,running better, quieter when the only thing you have done is put in the warm-up by-pass. All that has done is re-stablish flow through the pump and block. Difficult to resist the conclusion that the water pump and belt drive didn't like running without a by-pass and were generating enough vibration that even the Mrs noticed the change.

 

 

More likely to be the water temp sender is now giving the ecu the right reading, If water wasnt passing the sender then it could of been reading too high or too low, telling the ecu to richen or weaken when not needed,

In twenty years being in the motor trade I have never seen a water pump "stall"

 

Glad its running better mate,

 

My reference to being "gas safe" was in relation to you using household heating fittings and soldered joints, Lol,

 

Dave

[Guest The Modfather]

Yes, when the stat is closed, both of these smaller outlets are open, so either CAN be used to bypass ONLY. When the stat opens, the larger opening will naturally cause the water to flow through this rather than the smaller outlet, thus giving you the correct flow.

I'm not sure what the back plate is for, as when the stat is closed, the plate doesn't seat anywhere as there is a decent gap between the plate and what it looks like it should sit against.

[fry61]

I'm saying nothing Nigel!!

[Longboarder]

I wish I hadn't neither. But seeing as I did and I'm a tad manic with my madness pills so in for a penny...... Presumably with or without the bypass, on startup the engine is cool/cold. So no difference there. As it warms up the 'without bypass setup' will give a cooler report to the ecu so will run a bit richer. I wouldn't have thought that would make much difference. Once warm there should be no difference. So I still think the water pump is the likely culprit.

 

Unfortunately the only way of testing is to ask the OP to block the bypass, run it, then remove the belt and run it, then warm up a bit and repeat with and without the belt, etc, till fully warmed up. That would be asking too much.

 

Nigel

[fry61]

I'm continuing to sit this one out -- may get into hot water otherwise.

[Snapperpaul]

Cool it boy, cool it.

I think the engine designers do things for a reason, spend lots of money getting engines to work efficiently and reliably.

Changing the way they work then wondering why!

On the Pinto many people omit the heater hose from head to pump other forums with more engine specific knowledge know that this causes hot spots in the head.

On the Zetec I would always set up as Ford intended not as GBS advised, who has more knowledge of the engine?