Emerald Mapping

[Guest mcramsay]

hey guys, long time since ive been on this board. i have finished my car and am currently waiting for my IVA date in feb. I was hoping to be able to get through the IVA without having the car mapped (just makes things a bit easyer for me) i have a innovate Wideband lambda wired up to the emerald ecu. I got the wideband talking to the ecu last night and was finally able to see some values on the emerald live readings screen. once the engine was up to temperature the engine was still running very rich. at around 12 AFR. however when trimming the fuel to get this number closer to 14.7 the engine revs became quite erratic and the exhaust started to back fire. im guessing as im leaning the mixture out i will also have to advance (by trimming in the live reading section) the timing? has any one got some info on how to just get my engine running with decent emmissions to get it through IVA? I know getting it rolling roaded is the answer! its just not a viable one right now!

[Guest Tim Norman]

Unfortunately the chances of you getting through the IVA are as viable as your rolling road thoughts. I have found out that it is very easy to totally fubar a perfectly good map by just altering a few settings, and that was on a proper rolling road map. In my opinion you will need to spend the £300 plus vat for the rolling road now and save the possibility of forking out for another IVA later as you will almost undoubtedly fail on the emissions. All I did was change the inlet manifold then thought I could fix the map myself.

 

Computer says noooooooo!

[knights_templar]

Hi

 

get the base emission map for your setup, which should get you close, and set the ECU to use the wide band in adaptive mode, you will have to set the lambda calibration to your sensor type, the AFR will then look after itself. re timing should not be necessary.

 

unfortunately there are other variables, that will give you the effects you describe.

 

you haven't said but I guess your on Jenvey's,

 

am I right?

 

regards

[Guest mcramsay]

yeah im using jenveys, what i have done so far is followed the manual step by step, i have balanced the throttle bodies to within an inch of their lifes using syncrometer, once the engine is up at temperature and reset the idle balance screw and then reset the throttle pot on the emerald software. i have then set the emerald up to read the following wideband readings 0v at 11AFR and 5v at 16AFR as per the instruction manager (i have also set the wideband output on LM manager aswell) so the wideband is giving out the correct values the ECU should expect. I am using a map that GBSC got from emerald and i believe it is the same set up as i am using. i will have a go at adaptive mode tonight. i know a rolling road is what im going to have to do, i just wanted to see if there was a way i could get the engine to run decently without forking out at the moment!

[Guest Tim Norman]

Ooooooh thats handy how do you do that then the adaptive thingy. I have the sideband fitted just not connected to the ecu yet.

[knights_templar]

Hi

 

Jenveys are OK with the power map, but are a little "awkward" when you try to lean the mixtures.

 

you appear to have done your homework, re setting them up, half expected you not to have balanced, a common mistake. however one oddity with only having a TPS and temp sensors for the ECU, don't normally run lambda sensor, is that you can set the throttles to wide at tick-over, and then calibrating the TPS can completely confuse the issue. if it is backfiring at tick-over or there abouts this is the likely problem

 

Ignore what the ECU says the AFR is at this point, with the engine running that erratically it won't be getting a true reading.

 

remove air cleaner and pear down throttle tubes, if you can see a gap between throttle and tube, it is set to wide. slacken off the tick-over screw fully and re-cal TPS. start engine on throttle, it may be easier with power map, and turn in adjuster until it can run by itself. re-cal TPS at that position.

 

AFR is only a guide to what is happening so don't assume that it will get through the test.

 

the thing is, you don't need to pay for rolling road time, they are used to get max power, not emissions. what you need is a friendly garage with an mot gas tester, don't tell them you could overheat their test probe though.

 

tick over setting can be achieved easily and if everything else is OK is near on with the emission map anyway, the messing is at 2500 to 3000 rpm, as you adjust the boxes you will see that the throttles have to move to maintain rpm criteria, in-turn moving to different load sites, a little trial and error but when set the lambda sensor should keep it on track, if it can't you may have air leaks into inlet or exhaust, another known problem.

 

let us know how you go

 

Regards

[Guest mcramsay]

Hey, I had another play tonight and recorded what I found and posted on you tube. I think I'm missing something... Should the idle be so erratic? I've given all manifolds a nip up and they are all brand new with new gaskets... So I'm ruling out air leaks.... Well I say that but looking at the engine idle maybe not.... Here's the video.

 

Will any decent rolling road/engine tuner be able to Sus out how to work with the emerald ecu? Only it's a 400 mile trek to go see Dave walker... With a car that's never been driven! A long way to go and have something fail on the rollers and end up having a wasted day and lots of expense!

[Longboarder]

Where abouts are you? I had the feeling you were somerset based. You don't have to go all the way to emerald. There are good rolling roads I have used in launceston and plymouth.

I think as far as preparing for mapping is concerned follow knights-templar with the additional suggestions of checking what fuel pressure and injectors your your map is set for and making sure you have the same or apply the necessary correction. Don't try to idle so low. 850 will be easier. I would start with the idle air screws closed and then rebalance the bodies. You should get closer than you are at present. Finally what idle strategy are you using. Ignition advance/retard or air bypass? If ignition advance then you may need to increase the values more steeply to give sharper response if emerald allows you to do that.

But get it running well first all but ignoring the lambda and then tidy up emissions.

 

Nigel

[Guest mcramsay]

Yes I am in somerset, after doing a bit of research and chatting there is a pretty good Vw/Audi specialist nearby who have a rolling road and the owner has experience with emerald ecu's. I have had some experience with them before when they diagnosed my poorly running corrado g60 with a faulty map sensor, so he took the ecu apart and desolderd the faulty map and replaced... There arnt many garages that will go that far! Anyway I think I will get the car to them, they charge 80 quid an hour for custom ecu mapping. I'm worried about putting the car on the rollers as its never been driven! But I suppose I can ease it in gently. As for balancing I have been turning the idle control off and balancing roughly with the bleed air screws fully closed. The difference in balance is now more between each single body rather than between pairs. Should I now be adjusting the idle air mix screws (Allen head grub screw like things with lock nuts? One on each single body?) to fine tune the balance? And then finally reset the idle to 850 and recalivrate the throttle pot? I believe the idle control is done through ignition stabilising using ignition advance?

 

In the notes for the map it said 330cc injectors were being uses and I am using the standard black top injectors which are 192cc I have tried rescaling the map and it made things worse but that was before I had the wideband set up correctly so I might have a go with that again and see what is actually going on with the fueling. Haha at this rate I'm going to need a new cat with the amount of rich exhaust fumes I'm chucking in!! On the emerald live view screen should I be able to get the idle bang on and hardily fluctuating at all?

[knights_templar]

Hi again

 

think we better go back a few steps.

 

put in a clean copy of the power map, its friendlier.

 

balance throttles so the read EXACTLY the same. and again set tick-over as above, touch anything on the throttles re-set TPS

 

set tick-over 900 to 950

 

now does the engine run happy?

 

if it doesn't, switch OFF idle stabilization, its a pain and doesn't help.

 

does she run happy now?

 

if no, have you touched the pressure regulator, should be set at 3 bar from box, if GBS, ford regulator is set at 2.8 if I remember rightly, 0.2 bar should make little difference, map was done with 3 bar.

 

if she is still running poorly you have another problem. have seen plugs enameled up after running with throttles set badly. I have also seen the plug caps missing the plugs, their rubber and can get lodged to the side of the plug, I would be inclined to check everything before touching the ECU

 

If it runs fine, now is the time to try the emissions map, keep idle stabilization off, you can inject map whilst running, you will hear it hickup as it goes in but should keep running fine.

 

again don't bother with rolling road just get it checked and adjusted on a gas analyzer, save your money until you have IVA and get it tuned up for power.

 

regards

Edited December 29, 2011 by knights_templar

[knights_templar]

have re listened to your video, good idea that.

 

engine is running very uneven, and appears to be missing, no point in playing with ECU until that is sorted.

 

follow above, but I suspect you will be taking the inlet off to check seals and gasket, think it should it have spacer gasket between manifold and head? but throttles are clearly out.

 

regards

[Guest mcramsay]

I will check the basics and balance again tomorrow with a clean version of the power map. When going to balance the bodies there is one single body (number 4 flywheel end) is higher than the rest with the idle air screw fully in, as I cannot lower that any further I.e it's seeing 3 and the rest are seeing 2.5. Once the pairs are balanced should I adjust them all to read the same as the highest one?

 

As for fuel pressure regulators I am using one I bought from rally design which is adjustable, the gauge is mounter on a bit of an angle do I will ensure the fuel pressure is cock on 3 bar. And I will post up another video of how its running tomorrow night! I might even treat my self to a new set of spark plugs

[Guest mcramsay]

One more thing I have used the large thermal gasket on the inlet, almost a plasticy type thing with a outline of the inlet traced in a rubber like sealant, should there be a proper gasket either side of this?

[knights_templar]

me again

 

gasket OK

 

if No 4 is fully in we may have found the problem.

 

balance between the two pairs is mechanical, and often missed, the adjusters for each body are air by pass. have you adjusted the air bypass screws first before the mechanical adjustment?

[Guest mcramsay]

No no this is when I reset everything. Ive had the bodies much better balanced than they are now. First I balance using the mechanical adjustment between the pairs and then use the air bleed screws for fine adjustment. Tonight I reset all air bypass screws by screwing them home. And then balanced the pairs of bodies just to get it roughly there. After resetting all the bypass screws do they are fully in number 4 has a higher reading than the other bodies. So once the pairs are balanced should I then set them to the air flow of the body with the highest reading? Or have I got this all wrong?!