Oil Starvation

[Guest Orange Indy]

Hi - I need some advice, I have a modified Pinto in my recently purchased MK Indy, with Twin 45's big valve head piper cam etc and managed to seize the number 4 big end bearing after an hour on the track.

 

Following close inspection it looks like there might be 3 causes, shortened sump has not been widened giving less total volume, the pickup pipe was at least 20mm from the base of the sump, and we think the oil level was a little low.

 

 

Anyone any thoughts? As the car is mainly intended for track day use (possibly with slicks) assuming I put these things right will I be okay or should I fit one of these oil accumulators etc

 

Bit surprised that I can't find any threads on this apologies if I have missed it!

[Andy Spencer]

By the way this guy is a good mate of mine and he has just sent the forms off to join our club so some ideas would be great........its a nice motor too (very fast when I went out in it b4 he wrecked the bearings :boohoo: :boohoo: )

 

Andy

[Guest Battery Bill]

A shortened sump with the added extra side box and a few Baffles might help

[Andy Spencer]

Thought you might suggest that Bill!!! He's going to have the pick up pipe and old sump off my 1.6 so I guess it'll be on its way to you soon.

 

We've been discussing this at work for a few days now, the crank had been previously ground and the engine was running a treat before the track so we don't think it was due to long term wear. We reckon that replacing the oil pump and driveshaft will also be a good idea just to be safe.

 

What is the ideal gap between bottom of sump and pick up pipe? I'm sure I discussed with Big Jim and concluded it was just over 1/4"?

 

Andy

[Guest Battery Bill]

Andy

Yes that seems a good distance to me we are setting the ones we do to 5mm (ish)

I cant see any advantage to having it closer or further away, too close and it will be restricted by the base of the sump.

But I think a few more baffles might help as well

[Longboarder]

As there is no cross member to worry about extend the base of the sump forward to gain lots of extra volume. Horizontal baffle is vital to stop the oil climbing the sides plus whatever vertical baffles take your fancy.

Slicks = high G's + low oil level = challenge + high revs (so more oil is up in the cam cover trying to find its way back down) = failure.

 

Nigel

[Guest yosamite sam]

i instantly think of the oil spray bar - is it clogged? thats a common fault and should be replaced quite often.. how much oil did you put in?

[Guest mkeats02]

You could consider fitting a oil cooling and an acusump.

 

You will have multiple gains, cooling, restore some of the oil capacity and maintain a good oil supply.

 

Mike

[Bob Tucker]

Yup, all those things together will knacker it. 20 mm is way too far up.

Recheck oil level before & after every track session

The SBD flat bottom sump I bought for my XE lump has a horizontal baffle plate.

It fits about 2 inches above the sumps bottom, has only a single

central hole for the pickup pipe to fit through, and a gap of about 1/8 inch

all the way round the edge.

Oil can drain down all round it easily, but a sudden surge will be slowed down dramatically.

Something similar should be easy in a mild steel Pinto sump.

IIRC the oil pump is at the front of the Pinto?

Thats probably why no 4 gave up first, further away from it, so dried out first.

Bob

[Guest Jaffer]

I've chopped mine and put an extension on the front [ oooeerrrr Missus!] of the sump.

 

I've only put the 'standard' amount of oil in so far, [3.75 litres according to Haynes I think] and the level only comes about a third of the way up the dipstick, so I would think that there is room for another litre or two yet, so I'm with Longboarder on this one!

 

Pick up pipe is 5-6mm from base.

 

Jaff

[Snapperpaul]

I am braking an old Pinto so have a crank if you need one dead cheap and i can pass through Ashby every 2 weeks or so.

[Guest Orange Indy]

Thanks very much for the crank offer, however it now looks like while I am at it I need new pistons and rings, so I am thinking of buying a 2.1 built block from Davies Competition engines (exchange) 100 more cc and good compression = more power!? Not that the car really needs it but you can always do with a bit more! If anyone has any experience of them I would be interested.

 

There is no cross member in the way and the current sump has been extended forward for the extra volume. Unfortunately I am not completely sure how much oil it took, but I think less than 4 litres. One of the problems is that as the sump is quite well baffled (a couple of vertical ones along with a full horizontal one pretty much as Bob and Nigel describe) and that meant that the bloke who built it modified the dip stick as it clearly could not go through the horizontal baffle plate, the result is that I can not be 100% confident that the level was right. I guess the answer to that is to drill a hole in the baffle plate and get my hands on an original dip stick, then perhaps dummy build and see if I am getting close to the right volumes.

[Guest Jaffer]

Hi James,

 

... I filled my 'forward extended' sump up to the original fill level on the dipstick on the weekend and it took a total of 4.5 litres, although the engine has not been run yet so there may need to be some adjustment.... if this helps!

 

Jaff

[Bob Tucker]

I guess the answer to that is to drill a hole in the baffle plate and get my hands on an original dip stick, then perhaps dummy build and see if I am getting close to the right volumes.

 

Thats spot on.

Regardless of oil quantity, the upper oil level must remain as per the original. It is governed by the throw of the crank. I also had to drill a suitable hole in the baffle to let the dip stick through.

HTH Bob.

[Snapperpaul]

I am thinking of buying a 2.1 built block

 

I have a 2.1 with standard injection head, the Ajusa head gasket which raises the compression by about 0.5 and a 285 cam with bike carbs. Rolling road print out says 130bhp and 135 torque.

 

So if you go the 2.1 route get them to deck the block so the pistons at TDC are flush with the block. With the big valve head Piper cam and 45"s should be quite a beast.

 

 

What was the original BHP?